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good evening how is everybody doing got

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a very special night tonight the big

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night Barrett Brown is here and we're

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gonna be taking your phone calls put

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that in your pipe and smoke it

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that's right bear Brown of I'm gonna

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talk about well he's gonna be with us

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all night you're gonna meet Barrett but

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get ready for that so this is your

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opportunity to ask questions and say

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thank you to one of the most important

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voices of our generation

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somebody that has lived an extraordinary

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life and continues to do so and he is

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here with us tonight

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and I'm gonna talk more about Barrett in

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my little opening rant and why this show

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was so important for me and which is

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what Theta Black has always been about

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okay these are the things that motivate

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me and that interest me and I do this

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show for myself and tonight I'm doing

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this show for me and you're gonna get to

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participate in that and I hope that all

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of you will come away with something

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tonight listen to every word I've been

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saying this listen every word and then

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later go out and look at some of his

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films that he has been in his YouTube

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videos his past writing his current

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stuff he's got a new book coming out

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we'll be talking about that tonight too

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as well but an extraordinary writer just

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extraordinary journalist and so yeah and

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you will remember tonight it's a very

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very big deal been putting this show

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together for two years

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okay so very excited and he's here to

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take your phone calls we are going live

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right now he hands fate or night I'll

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[Music]

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this hope radio for the masses headliner

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between July 8 1947 the on the airport

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who has an ops and applying her has been

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found and is now in the possession of

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the RA the game is rigged change the

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game changer I occasionally think how

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quickly our differences worldwide would

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vanish if we were facing an alien threat

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from outside his way

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[Music]

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this is baked and black with your host

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Jimmy church on the game-changer Radio

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Network and K GRA the Global Radio

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we need your help to get to the year

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[Music]

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like with Jimmy judge on the game change

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in network

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[Music]

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good evening

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fade to black but spoke radio for the

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[Music]

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masses yeah you do it how you doing how

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you doing

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Thursday night it is Fator nights July

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12 2018

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[Music]

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that's right 193 days into the new year

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just 172 days left we're live from a

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bunker somewhere in beautiful downtown

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Burbank California and I would like to

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welcome everybody listening all around

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the world all across the United States

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hither and thither to and fro back and

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forth up and down east and west north

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and south bar near this is fade to black

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for KJ CR the game changer networking

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caging are a the planet I'm your host

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Jimmy Church what is cracking everybody

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how you do it how you do it

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it's Thursday nights Fator night I'm in

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the chair very special presentation

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tonight because tonight we have very

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special guest Barrett Brown is with us

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that's right one of the most important

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voices of our generation and tonight

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we're gonna break it all down

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journalism prison the mass media and

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what it is like to live a life going

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against the grain so he can speak the

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truth that is our evening tonight and

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then later on it's Fator night which

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means open lines so Barrett is gonna

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hang with me and take your phone calls

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and this is your opportunity to not only

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reach out to Barrett and ask those

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questions you've always wanted to ask

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and and it's all there for you but also

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to say thank you all right and so you

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can do that all night tonight and would

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it be fun you know what I wanna hear one

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of you has bared a UFO question and the

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other day you know I don't want to

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reveal it you know too much private

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conversations but the other day bro

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Barrett and I were talking last week and

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I was like right on right so anyway and

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we were talking about

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late-night talk radio you know coast to

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coast and and other things and he had

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brought up some of his articles that he

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had written you know futurism and he's

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right there

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you know and it was so fun to hear that

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side of him so maybe we'll go there

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tonight too as well it's your

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opportunity to do that it is your show

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our guest tonight is Barrett Brown and

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it also I did want to mention that Jon

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Rappoport again is out doing research

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and he had sent me this text which

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allowed us to you know get Barrett in

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here tonight too as well now I've been

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working on the show but with Barrett now

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for two years I'll talk more about that

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in just a bit

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but so I get this this text from Rob

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from Horace Mann okay

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I'm going back out emergency research

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and and I said you know go do your thing

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then I just come back and report from

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the road right so that allowed us to do

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this show tonight's called synchronicity

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everything just worked out so tonight

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Barrett Brown is here and I wrote up a

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little piece over at on stellar today

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and I I do want to say spending my days

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over it on stellar I mention it here all

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the time but you must understand I'm a

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social media person I'd like to get out

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there and connect with all of you this

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is a big big big community and we have

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managed to join together and we do it

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over at on stellar so I was over there

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today I was writing and reading and I

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posted a little thing about tonight's

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show over there about Barrett so you can

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go and check that out and it spells out

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some details and some of that you know I

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like to post my show notes over at

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because I write you know during the day

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and I'm getting you know my head

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together so

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I'd like to post those show notes over

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it on stellar so you kind of get an idea

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of what I'm gonna talk about on the show

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each evening and you can go check out

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all of that over at on stellar and I

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love everybody's responses to profile

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pics because I can't get it all day long

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dude I go okay man you know I'm all good

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man profile pic and I immediately friend

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and connect yeah so get over it on

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stellar ons te ll a are dot-com an

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amazing social media platform that is

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built for this community we've got some

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big changes coming up yes our video

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channels will be happening very shortly

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so stay tuned with that there's going to

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be a live streaming element ready to go

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and I think we're gonna do our first run

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on that I'm gonna host it in about a

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week so get ready we'll announce who who

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my guest will be and it's you know to

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testing of the platform just to make

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sure everything is cool so that's coming

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up so on stellar ons te ll AR comm use

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my referral code which is Jimmy you're

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gonna want to do that so just do it

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Jimmy get over to on stellar get

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registered and come and hang out with

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all of us you can follow me on twitter

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@jj do Facebook is still alive for us

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for the time being

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can I wait until I never click on

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Facebook again I'm closing that thing

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down and YouTube is still a live force

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too as well you know we've got I don't

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know you know 60,000 some odd

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subscribers over there you know we have

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our fate or nots and we have our podcast

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and we have those subscriptions and and

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other things that are out there but

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there are so many out there that just go

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to youtube for their content and I get

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that

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so do we keep YouTube alive I don't know

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I don't know what's gonna happen I don't

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I really don't all right but in the

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meantime it's all there you can go to

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Jimmy Torrio calm and going and you know

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follow like subscribe do it every

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and if you're gonna hang out with us in

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twitter @j search radio of course is the

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my twitter feed but hashtag f2 B is the

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sandbox so we'll go through a few

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thousand tweets tonight like we do every

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single night on fade to black come and

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hang out with us join the conversation

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there and we have to chat rooms open one

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at Spreaker and one at kg RA they'll

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planets you can also email throughout

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the show jimmy attribute radio calm okay

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breaking news let's get straight to it

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we've got a lot of stuff to discuss

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tonight breaking news the US Centers for

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Disease Control and Prevention said

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today that 27 more people have gotten

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sick in a multi-state outbreak of

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salmonella that's right and all of this

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is linked to Kellogg's

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Honey Smacks used to be called Sugar

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Smacks Honey Smacks that's right the

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cereal this brings the total number of

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illnesses to 100 since March and the

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outbreak was not announced until June

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yeah that's crazy

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that just makes you just want us to just

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stop and think all right they're 20%

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discount right now on all offerings from

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River Moon coffee and the promo code

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there is coffee break two words coffee

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break

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two words River moon coffee calm and

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that includes our fade to black

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blend ok 20% off right now

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River Moon coffee don't forget to sign

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up for our soul tech gathering up at

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East SETI ranch it is this August 9th

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through the 12th all you have to do is

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go to Seoul tech gathering calm it's

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going to be an amazing event

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we've got james gilliland we've got

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Jason quit Matthew Ryan Makayla Sheldon

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Teresa Ian Aras Holly Marie Mary

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Gabriel John lund Dana Harvey Billy

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Carson Laura can't - and Christine con

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teenie all there to teach

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we've got five classrooms set up we're

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gonna be teaching for four days you're

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gonna want to come and hang out and

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learn alright and and I'm gonna be there

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we have skywatching going on every

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single night out on the field of dreams

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we've got music we've got entertainment

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we've got a party for Saturday night

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there are day passes now available if

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you don't want to come in and camp and

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hang out you just want to come from for

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one day come and do it okay with Friday

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if you want to come out for one day

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we've got the opening ceremonies and and

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everything going on in the big hall and

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then of course Saturday our classrooms

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all day long and I'm going to be doing

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in a couple of panels in the in the big

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conference room so that's going on and

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then of course Sunday the party alright

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great food everything is a setup and

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amazing come and hang out with us

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alright it is soul tech gathering

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dot-com all right don't forget to

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you can also become a fade or not in our

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00:17:22,189 --> 00:17:20,280
membership section on the site where you

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00:17:24,199 --> 00:17:22,199
get the bunker cam everybody's watching

279
00:17:29,230 --> 00:17:24,209
me right now it's kind of weird right

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00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:29,240
it's radio but I've got a camera in here

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00:17:35,660 --> 00:17:32,490
last month when we went through our our

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00:17:38,420 --> 00:17:35,670
issues with YouTube and we weren't

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00:17:41,570 --> 00:17:38,430
running the bunker cam it was great I

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had two weeks of no camera staring at me

285
00:17:46,790 --> 00:17:44,790
in the face but unfortunately I've got

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00:17:49,910 --> 00:17:46,800
it now there you go hello ever you like

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00:17:52,130 --> 00:17:49,920
my shirt Hawaiian shirt that's right

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00:17:54,890 --> 00:17:52,140
sent to me it's a Bali shirt actually

289
00:17:56,780 --> 00:17:54,900
not quite Hawaiian sent to me from

290
00:17:59,810 --> 00:17:56,790
Reverend Jimmy Pearson over in the UK

291
00:18:02,630 --> 00:17:59,820
love it absolutely love it he sent me a

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00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:02,640
collection that's right and you get to

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00:18:06,770 --> 00:18:03,930
see it right down in the bunker cam if

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00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:06,780
you can't see it that's why all right

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don't forget all of our sponsors okay

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00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:12,120
life change t get the t-dot-com River

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moon coffee ancient life oil sacred

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00:18:18,890 --> 00:18:17,280
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course barring optics

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night vision

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goggles let's get this show crackin

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00:18:30,430 --> 00:18:25,370
happy birthday to today Topher Grace is

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00:18:34,690 --> 00:18:30,440
40 he was great in American ultra he was

304
00:18:38,419 --> 00:18:34,700
really good in get shorty the series and

305
00:18:40,940 --> 00:18:38,429
you remember a Dan Fogler right all

306
00:18:43,639 --> 00:18:40,950
right Dan Fogler he was on the show here

307
00:18:46,730 --> 00:18:43,649
a couple of years ago star of the film

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00:18:48,409 --> 00:18:46,740
Don peyote and if you haven't seen it

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00:18:50,869 --> 00:18:48,419
you got to check out Don peyote but also

310
00:18:55,490 --> 00:18:50,879
and Freeman Freeman flies in Don peyote

311
00:18:58,820 --> 00:18:55,500
but Topher Grace is also in Don peyote

312
00:19:00,529 --> 00:18:58,830
Cheryl Ladd today is 67 and most would

313
00:19:04,399 --> 00:19:00,539
think well you know I'm saying that

314
00:19:07,669 --> 00:19:04,409
because of Charlie's Angels I am NOT now

315
00:19:10,610 --> 00:19:07,679
it's the movie millenium one of the

316
00:19:12,799 --> 00:19:10,620
great time-travel movies of all time if

317
00:19:16,549 --> 00:19:12,809
you've never seen millennium go check it

318
00:19:18,799 --> 00:19:16,559
out Michelle Rodriguez today is 40 I'm a

319
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:18,809
big fan of Michelle but I became a

320
00:19:25,820 --> 00:19:23,330
bigger fan after I watched this iwasa

321
00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:25,830
documentary now obviously I've I've

322
00:19:31,310 --> 00:19:29,129
never taken ayahuasca or DMT I don't I

323
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:31,320
just don't do those things I drink

324
00:19:39,230 --> 00:19:36,330
coffee chilled vodka and thick prime rib

325
00:19:40,970 --> 00:19:39,240
steaks that's my life right and friends

326
00:19:43,340 --> 00:19:40,980
and family that's me

327
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:43,350
but ayahuasca is intriguing you know and

328
00:19:46,009 --> 00:19:44,730
I try to study it and a lot of our

329
00:19:48,139 --> 00:19:46,019
guests here talk about it in Graham

330
00:19:51,619 --> 00:19:48,149
Hancock so I'm watching this ayahuasca

331
00:19:54,860 --> 00:19:51,629
documentary starring Michelle Rodriguez

332
00:19:58,490 --> 00:19:54,870
and she goes down to South America and

333
00:20:03,409 --> 00:19:58,500
she does the ceremony and you get to

334
00:20:05,539 --> 00:20:03,419
talk to see her before and after it's

335
00:20:07,999 --> 00:20:05,549
amazing Michelle Rodriguez happy

336
00:20:11,330 --> 00:20:08,009
birthday today she is 40 our dead guys

337
00:20:14,930 --> 00:20:11,340
birthday today is Charlie Murphy 1959 to

338
00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:14,940
2017 died at the age of 57 best known as

339
00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:16,799
being a contributing writer and remember

340
00:20:21,860 --> 00:20:18,809
the sketch comedy show Chappelle's Show

341
00:20:25,999 --> 00:20:21,870
alongside comedian David Chappelle but

342
00:20:26,450 --> 00:20:26,009
it was his first major role in the 1993

343
00:20:30,619 --> 00:20:26,460
film

344
00:20:33,740 --> 00:20:30,629
cb4 that remains his funniest that's

345
00:20:36,740 --> 00:20:33,750
right playing gusto in the city

346
00:20:40,340 --> 00:20:36,750
of loCash murphy ended up dying from

347
00:20:44,330 --> 00:20:40,350
leukemia last year on April 12th at the

348
00:20:48,820 --> 00:20:44,340
age of 57 on this day in history OTD

349
00:20:52,610 --> 00:20:48,830
disco starts its decline on this day in

350
00:20:56,390 --> 00:20:52,620
1979 with the infamous disco demolition

351
00:20:59,420 --> 00:20:56,400
night at Chicago's Kaminsky park that

352
00:21:01,790 --> 00:20:59,430
incident which led to at least nine

353
00:21:04,130 --> 00:21:01,800
injuries thirty-nine arrests and the

354
00:21:07,070 --> 00:21:04,140
cancellation and forfeit of a major

355
00:21:09,890 --> 00:21:07,080
league baseball game is widely credited

356
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:09,900
or blamed whichever one you want to

357
00:21:16,010 --> 00:21:13,410
choose with dealing disco its death blow

358
00:21:22,510 --> 00:21:16,020
on the stay 1979 now here you go

359
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:22,520
fader fact is you ready fader fact as of

360
00:21:33,250 --> 00:21:28,530
1998 over 50% of iceland's population

361
00:21:41,710 --> 00:21:33,260
believed in the existence of wait for it

362
00:21:47,420 --> 00:21:44,360
tonight very special guest Barrett Brown

363
00:21:53,050 --> 00:21:47,430
is here and we've been setting up this

364
00:21:59,200 --> 00:21:53,060
show for two years and I have covered

365
00:22:02,390 --> 00:21:59,210
anonymous I have covered activism I have

366
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:02,400
interviewed many times Gregg Housh on

367
00:22:06,620 --> 00:22:04,290
this program and coast to coast and

368
00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:06,630
Gabriela Coleman otherwise known as

369
00:22:14,150 --> 00:22:10,080
Bella I have attended the whole

370
00:22:16,100 --> 00:22:14,160
conference excuse me the Hope conference

371
00:22:18,170 --> 00:22:16,110
in New York City Manhattan at the

372
00:22:28,210 --> 00:22:18,180
Roosevelt Hotel right there seventh

373
00:22:34,130 --> 00:22:28,220
Avenue and I have gone as deep as I can

374
00:22:38,690 --> 00:22:34,140
into all of this I have and there are

375
00:22:40,910 --> 00:22:38,700
three documentaries that all of them

376
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:40,920
have appeared in a Barrett and Greg and

377
00:22:47,060 --> 00:22:44,640
Gabriella and those of anonymous the

378
00:22:50,850 --> 00:22:47,070
documentaries are we are legion

379
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:50,860
terms and conditions terms and

380
00:22:56,250 --> 00:22:52,810
conditions may apply and the hacker

381
00:22:59,250 --> 00:22:56,260
wars' and those are three films that

382
00:23:01,920 --> 00:22:59,260
after tonight's show I suggest this

383
00:23:04,860 --> 00:23:01,930
after every time I interview somebody

384
00:23:07,020 --> 00:23:04,870
from anonymous these are three films

385
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:07,030
that you need to go and watch and it's

386
00:23:13,050 --> 00:23:11,410
not so much about anonymous because

387
00:23:14,610 --> 00:23:13,060
there's the intriguing part of that

388
00:23:18,510 --> 00:23:14,620
right the guy Faust master there's

389
00:23:21,750 --> 00:23:18,520
there's all of that and and who they are

390
00:23:25,740 --> 00:23:21,760
that mystery and I get that but you need

391
00:23:30,690 --> 00:23:25,750
to go back further and a little bit

392
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:30,700
wider on why even anonymous is here okay

393
00:23:38,970 --> 00:23:33,850
but then you have the other parts of it

394
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:38,980
where lives were affected now

395
00:23:45,570 --> 00:23:42,610
I stayed at the same hotel in New York

396
00:23:47,670 --> 00:23:45,580
with a Gabriela and Gregg Housh when I

397
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:47,680
was there for the hope conference

398
00:23:53,790 --> 00:23:51,850
hackers on planet earth and greghowes

399
00:23:56,190 --> 00:23:53,800
and Gabriella well cabriole was a

400
00:23:58,950 --> 00:23:56,200
professor in college in that but Gregg

401
00:24:01,410 --> 00:23:58,960
Housh somebody that also was sent to

402
00:24:03,330 --> 00:24:01,420
prison one of the nicest coolest

403
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:03,340
brightest intelligent people you could

404
00:24:10,260 --> 00:24:06,010
ever be around very cool guy and to

405
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:10,270
think about the wrath that was brought

406
00:24:16,430 --> 00:24:14,530
down on his life and the complications

407
00:24:19,110 --> 00:24:16,440
from all of that the price that was paid

408
00:24:20,790 --> 00:24:19,120
it's it's enormous and it's incredible

409
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:20,800
and you meet I mean just think it's just

410
00:24:26,550 --> 00:24:23,290
not right it's not fair I have

411
00:24:28,470 --> 00:24:26,560
thoroughly gone into all of this since

412
00:24:34,220 --> 00:24:28,480
everything started to surface back in

413
00:24:36,690 --> 00:24:34,230
the early 2000s on March 6 2012 the FBI

414
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:36,700
executed search warrants at Barrett

415
00:24:41,340 --> 00:24:39,730
Brown's apartment and and also over at

416
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:41,350
his mother's house and they were looking

417
00:24:48,330 --> 00:24:45,610
for evidence of these crimes the items

418
00:24:50,850 --> 00:24:48,340
that they seized including and listen to

419
00:24:54,570 --> 00:24:50,860
this they were looking for records

420
00:24:57,900 --> 00:24:54,580
related to HBGary InfraGard and game

421
00:24:59,180 --> 00:24:57,910
systems anonymous LulzSec the famous

422
00:25:05,630 --> 00:24:59,190
lulz

423
00:25:10,550 --> 00:25:05,640
IRC chats Twitter wiki Ashkelon to org

424
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:10,560
and pay spin right agents left with

425
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:12,810
computers by the way all of this was on

426
00:25:18,110 --> 00:25:16,410
a live feed and that that's a another

427
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:18,120
story - we'll talk to Barry about that

428
00:25:25,490 --> 00:25:20,970
and then you have as this reaches out

429
00:25:29,570 --> 00:25:25,500
now I was thoroughly researching all of

430
00:25:31,940 --> 00:25:29,580
this in the 2000s and just totally all

431
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:31,950
the way up through the end of everything

432
00:25:39,740 --> 00:25:37,650
and then you have Jeremy Hammond talked

433
00:25:44,330 --> 00:25:39,750
about him a lot on this show he was

434
00:25:47,420 --> 00:25:44,340
sentenced back in 2013 a kid a kid to

435
00:25:49,910 --> 00:25:47,430
serve ten years in prison for hacking

436
00:25:55,310 --> 00:25:49,920
Stratfor along of course with Greg house

437
00:25:58,610 --> 00:25:55,320
and Barrett Brown and and releasing

438
00:26:00,770 --> 00:25:58,620
those leaks through WikiLeaks now you

439
00:26:04,430 --> 00:26:00,780
may not know I talk about a lot on this

440
00:26:07,010 --> 00:26:04,440
show but when when I talk about

441
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:07,020
WikiLeaks and I talk about these

442
00:26:11,090 --> 00:26:09,210
individuals you need to understand the

443
00:26:13,100 --> 00:26:11,100
connection and the relationships with

444
00:26:16,310 --> 00:26:13,110
all of this and how the man just

445
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:16,320
couldn't handle it 10-year prison

446
00:26:23,390 --> 00:26:18,810
sentence for releasing stuff on

447
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:23,400
WikiLeaks ten years jeremy hammond look

448
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:24,930
up that name and look at his face and

449
00:26:32,300 --> 00:26:27,650
you just tell me is that right

450
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:32,310
Brown faced up to forty five years in

451
00:26:36,140 --> 00:26:34,290
federal prison they originally brought

452
00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:36,150
down and that's just for strapped for by

453
00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:38,640
the way but they hit him with a hundred

454
00:26:42,260 --> 00:26:40,320
and five years just like they did with

455
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:42,270
Greg house and Jeremy Hammond

456
00:26:47,300 --> 00:26:44,490
he faced up to forty five years in

457
00:26:54,830 --> 00:26:47,310
federal prison for allegedly sharing a

458
00:26:58,210 --> 00:26:54,840
link a link a hyper link a link to the

459
00:27:00,920 --> 00:26:58,220
data Stratfor as part of his project PM

460
00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:00,930
the shared link was apparently from

461
00:27:10,750 --> 00:27:06,000
Hammonds hack now I I need you to

462
00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:10,760
understand you copy and paste a link and

463
00:27:16,340 --> 00:27:12,960
now your look

464
00:27:19,220 --> 00:27:16,350
at 45 years as part of the charge is a

465
00:27:24,380 --> 00:27:19,230
hundred and five years overall for

466
00:27:28,250 --> 00:27:24,390
sharing a link the arrests were all due

467
00:27:32,659 --> 00:27:28,260
to an informant known as Sabu I have

468
00:27:37,460 --> 00:27:32,669
talked to everybody about Sabu Sabu was

469
00:27:39,409 --> 00:27:37,470
put in a bad position by the FBI and he

470
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:39,419
had his family at his kids and they were

471
00:27:46,610 --> 00:27:42,330
doing the same thing to him and then

472
00:27:49,610 --> 00:27:46,620
everybody fell bare Brown Jeremy Hammond

473
00:27:53,870 --> 00:27:49,620
of course Gregg Housh it was an

474
00:27:56,990 --> 00:27:53,880
incredible situation all because the man

475
00:28:01,070 --> 00:27:57,000
and security agencies and private

476
00:28:05,210 --> 00:28:01,080
security companies couldn't handle what

477
00:28:09,139 --> 00:28:05,220
was going on with their own computers we

478
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:09,149
are talking about young adults here and

479
00:28:14,690 --> 00:28:10,770
we're talking about the computer age and

480
00:28:17,570 --> 00:28:14,700
we're talking about 1984 it's exactly

481
00:28:21,519 --> 00:28:17,580
what was going on here and in Barrett

482
00:28:24,169 --> 00:28:21,529
Brown's case he's a journalist he is a

483
00:28:28,190 --> 00:28:24,179
activist he is somebody that's out there

484
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:28,200
trying to make change in society he

485
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:30,330
copied and pasted a link and then

486
00:28:36,649 --> 00:28:33,330
everything unraveled for him and they

487
00:28:40,269 --> 00:28:36,659
came straight after his mom some of the

488
00:28:43,399 --> 00:28:40,279
things that were posted by Barrett

489
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:43,409
videos we will talk about that the

490
00:28:50,810 --> 00:28:46,370
bathtub videos and and others

491
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:50,820
threatening the FBI because of a direct

492
00:28:54,889 --> 00:28:53,130
result of you know not only his

493
00:28:56,419 --> 00:28:54,899
emotional state at the time and

494
00:29:00,320 --> 00:28:56,429
certainly being threatened and being on

495
00:29:05,389 --> 00:29:00,330
the run but for them coming down on his

496
00:29:08,180 --> 00:29:05,399
mom and it which is what the man does

497
00:29:10,820 --> 00:29:08,190
and the man did all of this and going

498
00:29:13,310 --> 00:29:10,830
back to Sabu because they couldn't

499
00:29:16,490 --> 00:29:13,320
control the narrative they couldn't they

500
00:29:19,310 --> 00:29:16,500
did anonymous was decentralized there

501
00:29:21,470 --> 00:29:19,320
was a very loose situation that was

502
00:29:26,300 --> 00:29:21,480
going on here that they didn't

503
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:26,310
understand and that's where we are today

504
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:30,570
and when we go back and look we look at

505
00:29:37,220 --> 00:29:35,250
the events of 2016 2017 and we think

506
00:29:40,610 --> 00:29:37,230
about the complications in our lives

507
00:29:43,940 --> 00:29:40,620
today with mass media with social media

508
00:29:45,770 --> 00:29:43,950
platforms with with fake news and and

509
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:45,780
the journalism that is going on today

510
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:48,330
and the way that the man controls us and

511
00:29:54,860 --> 00:29:52,050
not only controls the daily dogma that

512
00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:54,870
they continue to do but they want to

513
00:30:01,730 --> 00:29:57,840
divide and conquer all of us and get us

514
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:01,740
in fighting that's how you control us by

515
00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:03,090
getting us out of control

516
00:30:08,090 --> 00:30:05,520
getting our eyes off of the prize

517
00:30:11,270 --> 00:30:08,100
getting our eyes away from the reality

518
00:30:13,370 --> 00:30:11,280
of of the important things that are out

519
00:30:15,950 --> 00:30:13,380
there and you need to think about that

520
00:30:18,620 --> 00:30:15,960
and who is doing something about that

521
00:30:20,930 --> 00:30:18,630
the decentralization of everything well

522
00:30:23,540 --> 00:30:20,940
certainly on stellar and what it

523
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:23,550
represents is part of that but this is

524
00:30:29,420 --> 00:30:26,370
something that Barrett Brown and others

525
00:30:32,060 --> 00:30:29,430
have been talking about and and seeing

526
00:30:35,450 --> 00:30:32,070
the future of for a very long time for

527
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:35,460
us and paid the price because the man

528
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:38,490
doesn't want us talking about it that's

529
00:30:42,620 --> 00:30:40,410
the importance of this show it's the

530
00:30:44,660 --> 00:30:42,630
importance of my life and when you sit

531
00:30:48,020 --> 00:30:44,670
down and listen to me

532
00:30:51,110 --> 00:30:48,030
on an evening talking about friends and

533
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:51,120
family and cooking out and in this

534
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:53,730
community and and everything that I deal

535
00:30:58,640 --> 00:30:55,770
with on this show and cracking jokes and

536
00:31:02,450 --> 00:30:58,650
music and guitar and and all of that

537
00:31:04,190 --> 00:31:02,460
these are the things that drive me and I

538
00:31:06,850 --> 00:31:04,200
know that you are concerned by the same

539
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:06,860
things because that's why you are here

540
00:31:14,270 --> 00:31:11,490
so going back to years ago as I started

541
00:31:16,850 --> 00:31:14,280
to cover all of these important things

542
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:16,860
and I went out to New York and I went to

543
00:31:21,890 --> 00:31:19,170
the Hope conference and I was out there

544
00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:21,900
with my team and my production team and

545
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:24,240
in cameras and producers and directors

546
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:27,210
and assistants and sound and lights and

547
00:31:31,490 --> 00:31:29,370
all of that stuff that we did going into

548
00:31:32,900 --> 00:31:31,500
the Hope conference and it wasn't a

549
00:31:37,190 --> 00:31:32,910
pretty day for me

550
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:37,200
weekend because not only was Barrett in

551
00:31:40,390 --> 00:31:38,970
prison and others are in prison and

552
00:31:42,919 --> 00:31:40,400
Jeremy Hammond

553
00:31:46,610 --> 00:31:42,929
these things were going on for them and

554
00:31:49,090 --> 00:31:46,620
I show up as a member of the media and a

555
00:31:54,830 --> 00:31:49,100
television network and a radio network

556
00:31:56,750 --> 00:31:54,840
trying to get this story out why because

557
00:31:58,390 --> 00:31:56,760
nobody else will talk about it and

558
00:32:01,549 --> 00:31:58,400
that's why I was there

559
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:01,559
and that it continues to this day and

560
00:32:06,530 --> 00:32:04,170
and now Barrett got out of prison and

561
00:32:09,549 --> 00:32:06,540
I've been after Barrett for the last two

562
00:32:13,490 --> 00:32:09,559
years because tonight is the trifecta

563
00:32:16,580 --> 00:32:13,500
Gabriela Bella Gregg house and now

564
00:32:18,860 --> 00:32:16,590
tonight Barrett Brown it's a very

565
00:32:22,010 --> 00:32:18,870
important show you need to understand

566
00:32:24,470 --> 00:32:22,020
how Barrett got here how I got here

567
00:32:27,110 --> 00:32:24,480
would joined us up tonight and and you

568
00:32:29,930 --> 00:32:27,120
are going to be part of all of this okay

569
00:32:32,630 --> 00:32:29,940
and now so this is the setup for the

570
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:32,640
show we're gonna do two segments with

571
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:35,250
Barrett and myself and then after that

572
00:32:39,620 --> 00:32:37,290
we're gonna open up the phone lines for

573
00:32:42,740 --> 00:32:39,630
you it's an important day you will

574
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:42,750
remember this show have fun enjoy it

575
00:32:45,950 --> 00:32:45,570
listen listen to it again and there you

576
00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:45,960
go

577
00:32:51,890 --> 00:32:48,480
this is fade to black I am your host

578
00:32:55,910 --> 00:32:51,900
Jimmy Church I am so happy to have

579
00:32:57,230 --> 00:32:55,920
gotten to July 12th the 2018 bear Brown

580
00:32:59,620 --> 00:32:57,240
will be here right after this short

581
00:33:03,590 --> 00:32:59,630
break you can follow me on twitter at

582
00:33:06,380 --> 00:33:03,600
JDO you can follow Barrett at Barrett

583
00:33:08,570 --> 00:33:06,390
Brown underscore at the end it's all

584
00:33:11,630 --> 00:33:08,580
right there in Twitter now I'm gonna go

585
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:11,640
to a break and when I come back or while

586
00:33:15,919 --> 00:33:13,770
I'm at break I want you to check out

587
00:33:18,410 --> 00:33:15,929
this tweet that I'm about to do of bear

588
00:33:21,010 --> 00:33:18,420
it it's absolutely incredible I'll be

589
00:33:50,490 --> 00:33:21,020
right back stay with me

590
00:33:54,020 --> 00:33:53,530
you're listening to Jimmy Church fade to

591
00:33:56,910 --> 00:33:54,030
black

592
00:33:59,860 --> 00:33:56,920
[Music]

593
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fade to black will now pause for aided

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is not your father's radio show on the

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best alternative talk radio on the

650
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[Music]

651
00:36:58,300 --> 00:36:56,720
hi this is Rob Reiner from anvil and

652
00:37:03,850 --> 00:36:58,310
you're listening to Jimmy Church

653
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:03,860
radio.com comments and we're listening

654
00:37:26,450 --> 00:37:23,860
all right welcome back fade to black

655
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:26,460
I'm you'll see me Church very special

656
00:37:32,090 --> 00:37:28,650
night tonight it is Fator night Thursday

657
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:32,100
night open lines with a very special

658
00:37:38,810 --> 00:37:36,690
guest Barrett Brown is here ok I laid it

659
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:38,820
out in my little opening rant and I

660
00:37:44,290 --> 00:37:40,490
think you get it

661
00:37:47,930 --> 00:37:44,300
Barrett is a writer he's an anarchist

662
00:37:49,490 --> 00:37:47,940
activist his work has appeared in Vanity

663
00:37:51,470 --> 00:37:49,500
Fair the Guardian the intercept

664
00:37:53,990 --> 00:37:51,480
Huffington Post New York press skeptic

665
00:37:57,350 --> 00:37:54,000
The Daily piece al-jazeera and dozens of

666
00:37:59,890 --> 00:37:57,360
other media outlets 2009 he founded

667
00:38:02,750 --> 00:37:59,900
project p.m. a distributed think-tank

668
00:38:04,670 --> 00:38:02,760
which was later repurposed to oversee a

669
00:38:07,100 --> 00:38:04,680
crowdsource investigation into the

670
00:38:09,140 --> 00:38:07,110
private espionage industry and the

671
00:38:11,690 --> 00:38:09,150
intelligence community at large via

672
00:38:15,140 --> 00:38:11,700
emails stolen from federal contractors

673
00:38:17,330 --> 00:38:15,150
and other sources in 2011 and 2012 he

674
00:38:19,610 --> 00:38:17,340
worked with anonymous on campaigns

675
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:19,620
involving the Tunisian Revolution

676
00:38:23,420 --> 00:38:22,410
government misconduct and all of those

677
00:38:26,860 --> 00:38:23,430
other issues

678
00:38:28,940 --> 00:38:26,870
in mid-2012 he was arrested and later

679
00:38:30,620 --> 00:38:28,950
sentenced to four years in federal

680
00:38:32,750 --> 00:38:30,630
prison on charges stemming from his

681
00:38:35,510 --> 00:38:32,760
investigations and work with anonymous

682
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:35,520
while in prison though he won the

683
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:38,010
National Magazine Award for his column

684
00:38:43,490 --> 00:38:40,770
the Barrett Brown Review of Arts and

685
00:38:46,130 --> 00:38:43,500
Letters and prison upon his release in

686
00:38:48,770 --> 00:38:46,140
late 2016 he began work on the pursuance

687
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:48,780
system platform for mass civic

688
00:38:52,460 --> 00:38:50,970
engagement and coordinated opposition

689
00:38:55,430 --> 00:38:52,470
we're going to be talking about that

690
00:38:58,010 --> 00:38:55,440
tonight and his third book it's called

691
00:39:01,910 --> 00:38:58,020
my glorious defeats will be released

692
00:39:04,970 --> 00:39:01,920
from fire Straus and Giroux in February

693
00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:04,980
2000 nineteen I would like to welcome to

694
00:39:09,170 --> 00:39:06,720
fade to black for the first time mr.

695
00:39:11,780 --> 00:39:09,180
Barrett Brown Barrett good evening my

696
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:11,790
friend how are you I'm fantastic thank

697
00:39:15,530 --> 00:39:13,530
you for having me oh it's good to hear

698
00:39:18,350 --> 00:39:15,540
your voice actually when I spoke to you

699
00:39:21,170 --> 00:39:18,360
last week as a man it's so good to hear

700
00:39:23,780 --> 00:39:21,180
your voice so how are you doing let's

701
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:23,790
actually get that out first how are you

702
00:39:29,590 --> 00:39:27,330
today fantastic fantastic you know I

703
00:39:33,250 --> 00:39:29,600
agree my voice was always nice to you

704
00:39:38,230 --> 00:39:35,430
you get the first-time guests disclaimer

705
00:39:40,290 --> 00:39:38,240
you're gonna be on with us a lot in the

706
00:39:42,700 --> 00:39:40,300
future and I look forward to that but

707
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:42,710
tonight you get the first-time guests

708
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:44,930
disclaimer which is Barrett it's just

709
00:39:49,300 --> 00:39:47,210
you and I sitting on my couch having a

710
00:39:51,370 --> 00:39:49,310
conversation as friends where it starts

711
00:39:53,380 --> 00:39:51,380
it starts where it ends it ends but

712
00:39:55,300 --> 00:39:53,390
we're gonna end his friends there it is

713
00:39:58,840 --> 00:39:55,310
you're ready to go that's very

714
00:40:01,510 --> 00:39:58,850
reassuring absolutely okay now I want to

715
00:40:02,950 --> 00:40:01,520
start with the present day and and your

716
00:40:05,980 --> 00:40:02,960
mindset and then we're gonna go

717
00:40:07,290 --> 00:40:05,990
backwards of for for a little bit but

718
00:40:12,670 --> 00:40:07,300
today

719
00:40:16,300 --> 00:40:12,680
did you ever back in 2008 2007 2006 in

720
00:40:20,980 --> 00:40:16,310
your journalistic career have any idea

721
00:40:24,820 --> 00:40:20,990
about the turmoil and the 1984 aurelion

722
00:40:27,940 --> 00:40:24,830
nightmare that ended up unraveling and a

723
00:40:30,430 --> 00:40:27,950
journalist being arrested and that we

724
00:40:34,060 --> 00:40:30,440
would be talking about this stuff today

725
00:40:36,970 --> 00:40:34,070
didn't your futurist it's mind did you

726
00:40:38,650 --> 00:40:36,980
think that this would have happened you

727
00:40:42,100 --> 00:40:38,660
know I guess I didn't come to think of

728
00:40:43,570 --> 00:40:42,110
it I had some pretty severe ideas about

729
00:40:46,170 --> 00:40:43,580
what might happen to the American

730
00:40:48,580 --> 00:40:46,180
Republic over the next couple decades

731
00:40:51,010 --> 00:40:48,590
but it didn't occur to me I you know I

732
00:40:52,060 --> 00:40:51,020
was a human writer in large part in

733
00:40:54,460 --> 00:40:52,070
addition to being a journalist that's

734
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:54,470
how I started out and this was a

735
00:40:59,680 --> 00:40:56,330
trajectory that kind of came about by a

736
00:41:03,520 --> 00:40:59,690
number of events you know that I could

737
00:41:05,970 --> 00:41:03,530
not have possibly predicted the the

738
00:41:08,350 --> 00:41:05,980
vision of the future which is something

739
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:08,360
largely well the humor side of it was

740
00:41:14,020 --> 00:41:10,250
always cool and it and your personality

741
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:14,030
came out that way you were you were in

742
00:41:20,710 --> 00:41:18,290
demand you were somebody that all of the

743
00:41:25,030 --> 00:41:20,720
publication's wanted you to write for

744
00:41:27,580 --> 00:41:25,040
them and did that affect things somewhat

745
00:41:30,810 --> 00:41:27,590
in other words did ego come into play as

746
00:41:33,550 --> 00:41:30,820
well not only through your writing but

747
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:33,560
starting to face the man that you could

748
00:41:40,510 --> 00:41:38,210
take all of this on I've had very

749
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:40,520
mecklen and Michael tendencies since I

750
00:41:44,530 --> 00:41:42,770
was a small child so that part of it is

751
00:41:47,620 --> 00:41:44,540
actually pretty pretty in sync with

752
00:41:49,810 --> 00:41:47,630
everything else it obviously as I

753
00:41:54,300 --> 00:41:49,820
started to look at the possibilities of

754
00:41:56,380 --> 00:41:54,310
the Internet as a adolescent there was

755
00:41:58,300 --> 00:41:56,390
there was a sense that there was this is

756
00:41:59,260 --> 00:41:58,310
a this was a land grab that this was

757
00:42:01,270 --> 00:41:59,270
something on which you could make

758
00:42:02,590 --> 00:42:01,280
yourself without having to climb up the

759
00:42:03,820 --> 00:42:02,600
institutional ladders and all that or

760
00:42:06,850 --> 00:42:03,830
get it to college degree or any of those

761
00:42:08,110 --> 00:42:06,860
things this was something it was very

762
00:42:12,310 --> 00:42:08,120
apparent to me that this was something

763
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:12,320
new and open just like the old you know

764
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:15,770
frontiers it was exactly that and then

765
00:42:21,550 --> 00:42:18,890
the other fascinating part about this

766
00:42:25,030 --> 00:42:21,560
and I have asked Bella I've asked Gregg

767
00:42:29,370 --> 00:42:25,040
Housh the same important question I'm

768
00:42:32,230 --> 00:42:29,380
going to lay this out to you the man in

769
00:42:35,650 --> 00:42:32,240
general the man didn't understand

770
00:42:38,020 --> 00:42:35,660
anonymous but anonymous may not have

771
00:42:41,460 --> 00:42:38,030
understood anonymous as well in that

772
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:41,470
what started off as lulz and laughter

773
00:42:47,230 --> 00:42:45,170
turned out to take down governments and

774
00:42:49,030 --> 00:42:47,240
countries right that's all leather

775
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:49,040
that's a whole other thing

776
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:53,330
did you envision that happening to as

777
00:43:00,760 --> 00:42:56,810
well I did actually when I first came

778
00:43:02,500 --> 00:43:00,770
across the the online venues from which

779
00:43:06,010 --> 00:43:02,510
anonymous eventually sprung which was

780
00:43:08,650 --> 00:43:06,020
4chan org back in 2006 there was

781
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:08,660
something there that fascinated me quite

782
00:43:16,180 --> 00:43:14,450
a bit the ability to bring in and sort

783
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:16,190
of harness large numbers of people very

784
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:18,650
quickly and allow them to put their

785
00:43:25,450 --> 00:43:20,570
ideas into play and to act upon those

786
00:43:26,860 --> 00:43:25,460
ideas this this was very new and even

787
00:43:28,870 --> 00:43:26,870
though was being directed at that time

788
00:43:32,260 --> 00:43:28,880
with these little sort of got us you

789
00:43:37,060 --> 00:43:32,270
know surreal pranks the the the basic

790
00:43:39,010 --> 00:43:37,070
the basic the basic ethos of this the

791
00:43:41,260 --> 00:43:39,020
basic the basic structure around it was

792
00:43:43,330 --> 00:43:41,270
kind of the same it was basically there

793
00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:43,340
was a period the big problem in 21st

794
00:43:47,860 --> 00:43:45,190
century is going to be how do you

795
00:43:50,530 --> 00:43:47,870
arrange large numbers of people or allow

796
00:43:52,060 --> 00:43:50,540
them to self arrange some particular end

797
00:43:55,180 --> 00:43:52,070
now that that's possible for the first

798
00:43:56,650 --> 00:43:55,190
time in human history and that was one

799
00:43:58,150 --> 00:43:56,660
of the early answers it was it was an

800
00:44:00,220 --> 00:43:58,160
accidental answer it was something that

801
00:44:00,550 --> 00:44:00,230
was not supposed to be an answer but

802
00:44:02,380 --> 00:44:00,560
what

803
00:44:04,930 --> 00:44:02,390
something that tells give us a lesson

804
00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:04,940
that anything to become anything else

805
00:44:12,130 --> 00:44:08,960
for one thing and that there is a great

806
00:44:15,850 --> 00:44:12,140
deal we're going to see in the decades

807
00:44:18,100 --> 00:44:15,860
to come come out of these amorphous

808
00:44:19,300 --> 00:44:18,110
online movements they will give rise to

809
00:44:21,300 --> 00:44:19,310
all sorts of things and they're gonna be

810
00:44:24,300 --> 00:44:21,310
very very hard for us to envision today

811
00:44:29,890 --> 00:44:24,310
even with the experience we have now

812
00:44:33,100 --> 00:44:29,900
going back in the this this question

813
00:44:34,660 --> 00:44:33,110
isn't the this simple one which is would

814
00:44:37,330 --> 00:44:34,670
you have done anything different

815
00:44:40,390 --> 00:44:37,340
no that's not the question the question

816
00:44:42,810 --> 00:44:40,400
is would you now knowing that you did go

817
00:44:46,420 --> 00:44:42,820
to prison that would you have done

818
00:44:48,550 --> 00:44:46,430
something more extreme anyway right with

819
00:44:50,110 --> 00:44:48,560
with did you hold back was there

820
00:44:52,300 --> 00:44:50,120
something else that you would have liked

821
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:52,310
to have done back then that you know

822
00:44:56,110 --> 00:44:54,050
what you went to prison anyway was there

823
00:44:58,840 --> 00:44:56,120
something else that you could have

824
00:44:59,650 --> 00:44:58,850
driven some screws in now I can always

825
00:45:01,660 --> 00:44:59,660
go to prison again

826
00:45:03,100 --> 00:45:01,670
yeah pretty happy with the balance I

827
00:45:04,930 --> 00:45:03,110
struck back and the great thing about

828
00:45:07,810 --> 00:45:04,940
the DOJ coming after me in the way they

829
00:45:10,630 --> 00:45:07,820
did well was that it was so it was so

830
00:45:12,190 --> 00:45:10,640
over overdone and so suspicious that

831
00:45:13,740 --> 00:45:12,200
even mainstream outlets that are

832
00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:13,750
generally not real quick on the uptake

833
00:45:17,620 --> 00:45:15,680
figured out pretty quickly this was

834
00:45:19,300 --> 00:45:17,630
retaliation for my investigative work in

835
00:45:21,130 --> 00:45:19,310
two firms working with the government

836
00:45:22,810 --> 00:45:21,140
and so they made the case for me and for

837
00:45:24,190 --> 00:45:22,820
the research that we did with project PM

838
00:45:26,620 --> 00:45:24,200
and with some of these people from

839
00:45:28,750 --> 00:45:26,630
anonymous they made the case for how

840
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:28,760
important that stuff was in a way that I

841
00:45:34,750 --> 00:45:30,770
never could any regrets

842
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:34,760
I would imagine so but having said that

843
00:45:42,370 --> 00:45:40,370
one never knows what sort of drawbacks

844
00:45:44,110 --> 00:45:42,380
and difficulties are going to later on

845
00:45:46,390 --> 00:45:44,120
open up new horizons and that's

846
00:45:48,940 --> 00:45:46,400
certainly true for me so I feel like I

847
00:45:51,580 --> 00:45:48,950
shouldn't would read anything when you

848
00:45:54,790 --> 00:45:51,590
when you got released I watched the film

849
00:45:57,340 --> 00:45:54,800
right and that the little short

850
00:45:59,820 --> 00:45:57,350
documentary and I'm looking at your

851
00:46:03,700 --> 00:45:59,830
parents and specifically your mom and

852
00:46:05,980 --> 00:46:03,710
now not to get any emotions out of you

853
00:46:08,950 --> 00:46:05,990
or anything but you look at your mom who

854
00:46:13,610 --> 00:46:08,960
and your dad who are your parents and

855
00:46:17,180 --> 00:46:13,620
obviously loved you but I my blood boils

856
00:46:19,700 --> 00:46:17,190
that is the tactic that the FBI took was

857
00:46:23,540 --> 00:46:19,710
to put pressure on you via your parents

858
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:23,550
who are obviously two of the coolest

859
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:26,490
ground is people out there and that

860
00:46:33,260 --> 00:46:29,010
ignited a lot of your anger back then

861
00:46:35,870 --> 00:46:33,270
too as well how do you feel are you a do

862
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:35,880
you do you accept what they did or do

863
00:46:42,020 --> 00:46:38,490
you still you know boil just a little

864
00:46:44,660 --> 00:46:42,030
bit that's something that you know I'll

865
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:44,670
have plenty of time to to respond to in

866
00:46:48,260 --> 00:46:45,090
the future

867
00:46:51,530 --> 00:46:48,270
I mean I've learned patience you can't

868
00:46:53,210 --> 00:46:51,540
forgive a police agency that you already

869
00:46:56,660 --> 00:46:53,220
despised in which you already think is

870
00:46:58,070 --> 00:46:56,670
fundamentally dangerous and Dilla tereus

871
00:47:01,070 --> 00:46:58,080
to the things this country we're

872
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:01,080
supposed to be about you can't forgive

873
00:47:04,580 --> 00:47:03,330
them on top of all that for going after

874
00:47:06,170 --> 00:47:04,590
your mother for prosecuting your mother

875
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:06,180
in order to try to get you to cooperate

876
00:47:13,010 --> 00:47:09,690
with them it was I was just a just a

877
00:47:17,930 --> 00:47:13,020
crazy story and so let's actually go

878
00:47:20,470 --> 00:47:17,940
back and not not getting really specific

879
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:20,480
we don't need to do that tonight but as

880
00:47:30,290 --> 00:47:24,570
things started to you know we can go

881
00:47:32,770 --> 00:47:30,300
back actually with with Jeremy and take

882
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:32,780
a look at that part of things where

883
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:36,930
obviously you didn't know what was going

884
00:47:40,910 --> 00:47:39,570
on the investigation and the way that

885
00:47:43,910 --> 00:47:40,920
they were doing things otherwise it

886
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:43,920
would have ended differently but did you

887
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:46,530
have suspicions were you looking at some

888
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:48,570
of these situations that they were

889
00:47:55,010 --> 00:47:52,650
closing in did you have any idea yes

890
00:47:56,660 --> 00:47:55,020
there were a number of indications even

891
00:47:58,190 --> 00:47:56,670
aside from the usual sort paranoia that

892
00:48:00,380 --> 00:47:58,200
always crops up whenever you're doing

893
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:00,390
something that the FBI is probably after

894
00:48:04,910 --> 00:48:03,210
you about for one thing never ever the

895
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:04,920
time at the point I got involved with

896
00:48:08,060 --> 00:48:06,330
anonymous to work on the Tunisian

897
00:48:10,850 --> 00:48:08,070
Revolution which was something that a

898
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:10,860
lot of Tunisians were involved in on the

899
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:13,050
anonymous front as in some of the fellow

900
00:48:16,430 --> 00:48:14,370
who later on when the provisional

901
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:16,440
government was a member of our Anan ops

902
00:48:20,300 --> 00:48:17,970
server from which a lot of this stuff

903
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:20,310
was organized back then at the time I

904
00:48:25,310 --> 00:48:22,410
joined the FBI had just raided 40

905
00:48:27,110 --> 00:48:25,320
households in the u.s. guns drawn

906
00:48:28,580 --> 00:48:27,120
families

907
00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:28,590
parted into the living room all

908
00:48:33,110 --> 00:48:31,440
electronics taken because of the DDoS

909
00:48:35,210 --> 00:48:33,120
attacks the denial of service attacks

910
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:35,220
that a couple thousand people had

911
00:48:40,100 --> 00:48:37,490
participated in to knock down

912
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:40,110
mastercards sort of corporate website

913
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:42,890
for a few seconds which didn't cause any

914
00:48:49,130 --> 00:48:45,210
damage to the the ability to process

915
00:48:50,810 --> 00:48:49,140
payments by the way a very minor almost

916
00:48:53,090 --> 00:48:50,820
kind of a digital sit in and that

917
00:48:54,890 --> 00:48:53,100
elicited this massive nationwide police

918
00:48:56,570 --> 00:48:54,900
response and then simultaneous raids in

919
00:48:58,940 --> 00:48:56,580
Britain so that was the situation when I

920
00:49:01,280 --> 00:48:58,950
got involved the first things I you know

921
00:49:03,890 --> 00:49:01,290
was doing aside from the Tunisia

922
00:49:05,630 --> 00:49:03,900
assistance program was getting lawyers

923
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:05,640
for these people going to the National

924
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:07,530
Lawyers Guild going to jail II Derman

925
00:49:11,660 --> 00:49:09,690
going to some of these other sort of

926
00:49:13,220 --> 00:49:11,670
radical old attorneys and getting

927
00:49:14,690 --> 00:49:13,230
identifying the people who rated and

928
00:49:16,130 --> 00:49:14,700
been putting them together so I heard a

929
00:49:18,140 --> 00:49:16,140
lot from these people who have been

930
00:49:20,660 --> 00:49:18,150
rated about exactly what would happen so

931
00:49:24,020 --> 00:49:20,670
there was never there was never a

932
00:49:26,900 --> 00:49:24,030
question that this was a path that led

933
00:49:28,730 --> 00:49:26,910
in one particular direction and as time

934
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:28,740
went on as we started discovering things

935
00:49:34,340 --> 00:49:31,050
that were very upsetting to the US

936
00:49:37,340 --> 00:49:34,350
government's there were more indications

937
00:49:40,190 --> 00:49:37,350
that that you know that I was I would

938
00:49:44,090 --> 00:49:40,200
eventually be targeted the the other

939
00:49:49,550 --> 00:49:44,100
part for me on the outside looking in it

940
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:49,560
was a harsh reality check for the FBI

941
00:49:54,290 --> 00:49:52,050
and all of those agencies that were

942
00:49:57,470 --> 00:49:54,300
looking into this that it was

943
00:50:02,410 --> 00:49:57,480
decentralized and this was something

944
00:50:06,950 --> 00:50:04,880
the exact opposite is what they were

945
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:06,960
dealing with here do you think God came

946
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:09,810
down also as hard as they did because

947
00:50:15,830 --> 00:50:12,570
you know they were just you know pissed

948
00:50:19,030 --> 00:50:15,840
off that that they couldn't they

949
00:50:21,020 --> 00:50:19,040
couldn't control this situation at all

950
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:21,030
that's that's a very strong possibility

951
00:50:26,300 --> 00:50:23,490
among among the many many slaps in the

952
00:50:28,970 --> 00:50:26,310
face that we gave not only them but also

953
00:50:32,060 --> 00:50:28,980
the GCHQ in England and a number of

954
00:50:34,490 --> 00:50:32,070
actual you know dictatorships and just

955
00:50:36,970 --> 00:50:34,500
companies all of the world you know and

956
00:50:40,610 --> 00:50:36,980
some point Anonymous got in on a

957
00:50:41,090 --> 00:50:40,620
Interpol FBI phone conference recorded

958
00:50:46,190 --> 00:50:41,100
it

959
00:50:49,430 --> 00:50:46,200
anonymous so that was embarrassing to

960
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:49,440
the FBI things like that you know if any

961
00:50:54,110 --> 00:50:50,850
of you ever dealt with authority figures

962
00:50:56,780 --> 00:50:54,120
you know that to to injure them in some

963
00:50:59,510 --> 00:50:56,790
way is to invite retribution and there

964
00:51:02,680 --> 00:50:59,520
was a great deal of injury you know in

965
00:51:04,910 --> 00:51:02,690
their direction during that period the

966
00:51:07,220 --> 00:51:04,920
you know so it would be it would have

967
00:51:08,330 --> 00:51:07,230
been surprising had they not reacted

968
00:51:09,950 --> 00:51:08,340
partly because of that but also from a

969
00:51:11,630 --> 00:51:09,960
policy standpoint from the standpoint of

970
00:51:14,270 --> 00:51:11,640
a governments or from people who

971
00:51:16,460 --> 00:51:14,280
basically just sort of accept that

972
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:16,470
degree of authoritarian governments as

973
00:51:20,870 --> 00:51:18,690
necessary something like anonymous that

974
00:51:23,090 --> 00:51:20,880
that comes out of nowhere and is if one

975
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:23,100
year rating video game servers and

976
00:51:27,530 --> 00:51:25,290
making little little memes right and a

977
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:27,540
few years later is taking down is

978
00:51:30,410 --> 00:51:28,770
helping to take down the Tunisian

979
00:51:31,730 --> 00:51:30,420
governments and then a year later you've

980
00:51:33,620 --> 00:51:31,740
got the NSA director saying these people

981
00:51:35,210 --> 00:51:33,630
will be able to take out power plants

982
00:51:36,860 --> 00:51:35,220
soon he was lying about that I don't

983
00:51:38,150 --> 00:51:36,870
think you believe that but it was

984
00:51:40,580 --> 00:51:38,160
something that the the the trajectory

985
00:51:44,650 --> 00:51:40,590
I'm sure was very alarming to a lot of

986
00:51:50,270 --> 00:51:44,660
people and so okay so now take us up to

987
00:51:54,260 --> 00:51:50,280
that day of the arrest again it's not so

988
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:54,270
much about the sensationalism of it but

989
00:51:58,520 --> 00:51:55,890
there was it was it was a live video

990
00:52:02,630 --> 00:51:58,530
feed to I wanted to ask you about that

991
00:52:05,930 --> 00:52:02,640
were you anticipating anything on that

992
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:05,940
specific day yes I was for one thing

993
00:52:09,620 --> 00:52:07,650
first of all they had rated me without

994
00:52:11,690 --> 00:52:09,630
arresting me in my mom's house as well

995
00:52:12,980 --> 00:52:11,700
and took in electronics all that they

996
00:52:14,930 --> 00:52:12,990
left the search warrant which michael

997
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:14,940
hastings put up on BuzzFeed after that

998
00:52:18,020 --> 00:52:16,530
it's still up there you can see the

999
00:52:20,930 --> 00:52:18,030
exact companies they were looking into

1000
00:52:22,340 --> 00:52:20,940
with HBGary in-game systems our website

1001
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:22,350
on which we compiled our information

1002
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:24,090
about these companies and my dream

1003
00:52:27,020 --> 00:52:25,530
project p.m. that was the that was

1004
00:52:28,430 --> 00:52:27,030
always the point of this that's that's

1005
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:28,440
you know that this the search the secret

1006
00:52:33,140 --> 00:52:30,450
search warrant started shortly after we

1007
00:52:36,290 --> 00:52:33,150
revealed all this stuff to the public so

1008
00:52:40,100 --> 00:52:36,300
and then I was I would received sort of

1009
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:40,110
a tip on March 5th mm I'm sorry not much

1010
00:52:44,300 --> 00:52:42,090
but yeah March 5th 2012 about that rate

1011
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:44,310
I did was not tipped off about the

1012
00:52:49,030 --> 00:52:46,410
actual the next rate which is about six

1013
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:49,040
seven months later when they stormed my

1014
00:52:52,460 --> 00:52:51,090
apartment with a SWAT team that was

1015
00:52:53,990 --> 00:52:52,470
something that took me by surprise and

1016
00:52:55,419 --> 00:52:54,000
that I think that comes across and

1017
00:52:59,599 --> 00:52:55,429
recording this on

1018
00:53:03,469 --> 00:52:59,609
and what what what ultimately did they

1019
00:53:05,059 --> 00:53:03,479
do there did you think that this was did

1020
00:53:07,849 --> 00:53:05,069
you have any idea like this was your

1021
00:53:10,039 --> 00:53:07,859
last day of freedom for a number of

1022
00:53:13,489 --> 00:53:10,049
years did you think you rather get

1023
00:53:16,579 --> 00:53:13,499
released later on that day you know not

1024
00:53:17,870 --> 00:53:16,589
really after in the aftermath after the

1025
00:53:21,589 --> 00:53:17,880
raid which was you know went very

1026
00:53:23,209 --> 00:53:21,599
quickly it occurred to me that well

1027
00:53:25,309 --> 00:53:23,219
actually no at first I thought you know

1028
00:53:27,259 --> 00:53:25,319
I know exactly what these guys gonna

1029
00:53:28,999 --> 00:53:27,269
charge me with and I know it's nonsense

1030
00:53:32,569 --> 00:53:29,009
so surely it should be easy for me a

1031
00:53:34,519 --> 00:53:32,579
journalist who has a megaphone to bring

1032
00:53:36,529 --> 00:53:34,529
that to public attention and I'm sure

1033
00:53:38,989 --> 00:53:36,539
the courts worked the same way and so I

1034
00:53:41,299 --> 00:53:38,999
was very naive I didn't realize I had

1035
00:53:43,699 --> 00:53:41,309
never really dealt with the federal

1036
00:53:46,219 --> 00:53:43,709
courts before and I knew in the abstract

1037
00:53:50,089 --> 00:53:46,229
of the DOJ is a very imperfect Institute

1038
00:53:51,469 --> 00:53:50,099
but I did not know very much at all

1039
00:53:54,079 --> 00:53:51,479
compared to what I know now about that

1040
00:53:56,089 --> 00:53:54,089
system how much of it can you discuss

1041
00:53:59,899 --> 00:53:56,099
right now am i free to just ask what

1042
00:54:03,049 --> 00:53:59,909
else oh okay did they offer you that

1043
00:54:06,049 --> 00:54:03,059
first day Barrett did they offer you a

1044
00:54:07,699 --> 00:54:06,059
deal to flip no they hadn't actually

1045
00:54:09,169 --> 00:54:07,709
even charged me there was it was a

1046
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:09,179
criminal complaint they used to come

1047
00:54:12,890 --> 00:54:10,890
raid me and then they had 30 days to

1048
00:54:14,209 --> 00:54:12,900
accomplish some charges and they charged

1049
00:54:15,949 --> 00:54:14,219
me with threatening a federal agent

1050
00:54:18,019 --> 00:54:15,959
based on my comment that I was going to

1051
00:54:20,959 --> 00:54:18,029
investigate this guy in the same way

1052
00:54:23,870 --> 00:54:20,969
this intelligence contractor had plotted

1053
00:54:26,059 --> 00:54:23,880
under the DOJ with their approval to

1054
00:54:27,799 --> 00:54:26,069
investigate the families of activists so

1055
00:54:29,899 --> 00:54:27,809
I knew it wasn't a violent threat I knew

1056
00:54:31,489 --> 00:54:29,909
who didn't violate the statue so when

1057
00:54:32,689 --> 00:54:31,499
those charges came I was still you know

1058
00:54:35,299 --> 00:54:32,699
like well you know there's there's

1059
00:54:38,269 --> 00:54:35,309
plenty of I can get out of this but know

1060
00:54:39,620 --> 00:54:38,279
that the FBI after those first charters

1061
00:54:41,059 --> 00:54:39,630
about a month after you know I was I was

1062
00:54:42,439 --> 00:54:41,069
in jail this whole time they did

1063
00:54:45,739 --> 00:54:42,449
approach my first attorney who was

1064
00:54:48,199 --> 00:54:45,749
public defender and said that if he you

1065
00:54:49,849 --> 00:54:48,209
know tell him that if he wants any kind

1066
00:54:51,979 --> 00:54:49,859
of plea bargain as an if he doesn't want

1067
00:54:53,870 --> 00:54:51,989
to go to trial and go do 20 years he's

1068
00:54:57,049 --> 00:54:53,880
gonna have to make a deal and I just

1069
00:54:58,399 --> 00:54:57,059
told him no and I got new lawyers in the

1070
00:55:00,589 --> 00:54:58,409
process of raising the money for those

1071
00:55:03,289 --> 00:55:00,599
lawyers the DOJ then came and tried to

1072
00:55:05,209 --> 00:55:03,299
seize that they not only seized the

1073
00:55:06,439 --> 00:55:05,219
money order tried to see somebody that

1074
00:55:08,630 --> 00:55:06,449
they shut it down for a few days in the

1075
00:55:10,339 --> 00:55:08,640
judge when Sheila made him give it back

1076
00:55:11,809 --> 00:55:10,349
but in the process they also sent us a

1077
00:55:13,130 --> 00:55:11,819
peanut so we pay which was the crowd

1078
00:55:16,029 --> 00:55:13,140
sort funding site that was being used

1079
00:55:18,470 --> 00:55:16,039
for my legal fund and they demanded the

1080
00:55:20,420 --> 00:55:18,480
identifying information of everyone who

1081
00:55:21,799 --> 00:55:20,430
had donated which is well beyond their

1082
00:55:23,509 --> 00:55:21,809
purview it later on they got sued for

1083
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:23,519
that years later when it became evident

1084
00:55:28,700 --> 00:55:26,010
but uh so this this was this was that

1085
00:55:30,529 --> 00:55:28,710
this was a situation in which some crazy

1086
00:55:32,359 --> 00:55:30,539
new thing would happen every couple

1087
00:55:34,220 --> 00:55:32,369
weeks there was some like a gag order

1088
00:55:36,529 --> 00:55:34,230
there would be accusations from them in

1089
00:55:38,180 --> 00:55:36,539
filings they would they would they

1090
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:38,190
called my new lawyers before they were

1091
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:39,930
actually my lawyers and kind of it which

1092
00:55:44,509 --> 00:55:42,690
is something that's not just not done it

1093
00:55:47,210 --> 00:55:44,519
was there was always new information and

1094
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:47,220
new concerns and new threats so it's

1095
00:55:50,990 --> 00:55:48,690
really hard to assess at any given time

1096
00:55:54,620 --> 00:55:51,000
what I was in for now they made one more

1097
00:55:57,349 --> 00:55:54,630
offer later on after they had charged me

1098
00:55:58,910 --> 00:55:57,359
with these other I'll let you go into

1099
00:56:01,430 --> 00:55:58,920
this that's were moving forward on that

1100
00:56:03,980 --> 00:56:01,440
one but they did eventually try to get

1101
00:56:06,769 --> 00:56:03,990
me to Cle to one count of aggravated

1102
00:56:09,019 --> 00:56:06,779
identity theft as opposed to the eleven

1103
00:56:10,970 --> 00:56:09,029
counts they had hit me with I was facing

1104
00:56:13,370 --> 00:56:10,980
a minimum of 22 years in prison on top

1105
00:56:16,130 --> 00:56:13,380
of the other charges altogether facing

1106
00:56:17,900 --> 00:56:16,140
105 years worth of exposure they offered

1107
00:56:20,660 --> 00:56:17,910
me two to plea to one of those counts of

1108
00:56:22,910 --> 00:56:20,670
fraud and I turned him down because I

1109
00:56:24,170 --> 00:56:22,920
was loud whatever plead a fraud now I

1110
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:24,180
certainly wouldn't plead a fraud in that

1111
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:27,210
context it was it was had I done so they

1112
00:56:31,460 --> 00:56:29,130
would have been able to prosecute anyone

1113
00:56:34,549 --> 00:56:31,470
who links to stolen information in the

1114
00:56:37,430 --> 00:56:34,559
future so and all of this sounds so

1115
00:56:39,349 --> 00:56:37,440
criminal and you were just a journalist

1116
00:56:43,579 --> 00:56:39,359
you know and that's the other part about

1117
00:56:46,339 --> 00:56:43,589
it you know being a spokesman or not for

1118
00:56:49,670 --> 00:56:46,349
anonymous really you know we're talking

1119
00:56:53,470 --> 00:56:49,680
about a journalist with the career that

1120
00:56:55,460 --> 00:56:53,480
was doing these things to disrupt but

1121
00:56:57,529 --> 00:56:55,470
ultimately that is what we're talking

1122
00:56:59,839 --> 00:56:57,539
about here but they wanted to make this

1123
00:57:01,279 --> 00:56:59,849
into something that it wasn't and that's

1124
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:01,289
exactly what they do

1125
00:57:06,769 --> 00:57:04,890
was it looking back did they ever scare

1126
00:57:09,650 --> 00:57:06,779
you did they intimidate you with these

1127
00:57:12,589 --> 00:57:09,660
with these charges and with these you

1128
00:57:15,109 --> 00:57:12,599
know a sensory and prison kind of thing

1129
00:57:18,769 --> 00:57:15,119
Oh certainly I spent two and a half

1130
00:57:20,450 --> 00:57:18,779
years in pretrial detention but there's

1131
00:57:22,130 --> 00:57:20,460
plenty of time to think oh my and my mi

1132
00:57:23,750 --> 00:57:22,140
just my over estimate

1133
00:57:25,370 --> 00:57:23,760
my abilities here if I got into

1134
00:57:26,990 --> 00:57:25,380
something that I can't get out of right

1135
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:27,000
put plenty of time to reflect on that

1136
00:57:33,950 --> 00:57:31,170
but ultimately we developed a plan that

1137
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:33,960
would not only hopefully get me out of

1138
00:57:39,410 --> 00:57:36,450
prison and at some point in the in the

1139
00:57:40,849 --> 00:57:39,420
medium future but also finish our work

1140
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:40,859
bring a great deal more of attention to

1141
00:57:45,500 --> 00:57:43,890
these companies essentially use the DOJ

1142
00:57:47,029 --> 00:57:45,510
for that end as an obviously everything

1143
00:57:48,589 --> 00:57:47,039
they did was another opportunity to go

1144
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:48,599
out there and say here's the search

1145
00:57:51,349 --> 00:57:50,250
warrant listing these firms these are

1146
00:57:53,569 --> 00:57:51,359
the firms that Barrett Brown was

1147
00:57:55,250 --> 00:57:53,579
investigating and wrote about and in

1148
00:57:57,440 --> 00:57:55,260
some cases exposed their private

1149
00:57:58,730 --> 00:57:57,450
programs this is what they were after

1150
00:58:00,650 --> 00:57:58,740
them for this is what the search

1151
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:00,660
warrants actually say these other things

1152
00:58:04,069 --> 00:58:02,970
are red herrings and that's okay and so

1153
00:58:05,690 --> 00:58:04,079
it we were affected but nothing that

1154
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:05,700
that everyone from the New York Times

1155
00:58:09,140 --> 00:58:07,650
New York Times read and to op eds both

1156
00:58:12,380 --> 00:58:09,150
saying you know this is Valley to our

1157
00:58:14,390 --> 00:58:12,390
charges Washington Times mainstream

1158
00:58:17,870 --> 00:58:14,400
outlets that again normally are not very

1159
00:58:19,190 --> 00:58:17,880
good on picking up on these nuances this

1160
00:58:22,250 --> 00:58:19,200
time they did pick it up and so

1161
00:58:25,250 --> 00:58:22,260
ultimately we put a pretty big dent in

1162
00:58:27,140 --> 00:58:25,260
their credibility and I think open to

1163
00:58:28,940 --> 00:58:27,150
wide open the window a little bit wider

1164
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:28,950
towards these intelligence apparatus and

1165
00:58:32,660 --> 00:58:30,930
of course by that time Snowden you know

1166
00:58:34,309 --> 00:58:32,670
while I was still in jail Snowden came

1167
00:58:36,079 --> 00:58:34,319
out and that change the conversation

1168
00:58:37,670 --> 00:58:36,089
further so all in all is a pretty good

1169
00:58:40,329 --> 00:58:37,680
couple of years for intelligence

1170
00:58:43,730 --> 00:58:40,339
contracting journalism now and there is

1171
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:43,740
also to clear things up let's put

1172
00:58:48,380 --> 00:58:44,970
something on the record I want the

1173
00:58:50,900 --> 00:58:48,390
audience to understand ultimately what

1174
00:58:53,150 --> 00:58:50,910
came down here what which was Stratfor

1175
00:58:55,609 --> 00:58:53,160
which wasn't in the original set of

1176
00:58:58,009 --> 00:58:55,619
charges but that's ultimately which you

1177
00:58:59,599 --> 00:58:58,019
were convicted on correct right so what

1178
00:59:00,920 --> 00:58:59,609
happened was we had these hackers and

1179
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:00,930
Anonymous had originally hacked these

1180
00:59:04,190 --> 00:59:02,490
other companies HBGary and all that and

1181
00:59:05,630 --> 00:59:04,200
we exposed a bunch of stuff and those

1182
00:59:07,430 --> 00:59:05,640
were really the the emails they took

1183
00:59:09,859 --> 00:59:07,440
from that company which had claimed it

1184
00:59:12,230 --> 00:59:09,869
could identify our secret leadership you

1185
00:59:14,660 --> 00:59:12,240
know quote-unquote the emails that they

1186
00:59:17,470 --> 00:59:14,670
took were instrumental in flooring

1187
00:59:20,359 --> 00:59:17,480
several very bizarre plots including uh

1188
00:59:22,910 --> 00:59:20,369
attacks on Wikileaks the setting up of

1189
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:22,920
activists on fraud charges DDoS attacks

1190
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:24,210
with the same source that our nons

1191
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:26,250
yet rated for and arrested and charged

1192
00:59:30,589 --> 00:59:28,890
for all the time and then later on eight

1193
00:59:32,839 --> 00:59:30,599
months later so well we're now in now

1194
00:59:34,579 --> 00:59:32,849
focused on these companies there's

1195
00:59:35,930 --> 00:59:34,589
another hack that Jeremy Hammond another

1196
00:59:38,420 --> 00:59:35,940
anonymous hacker is involved

1197
00:59:40,930 --> 00:59:38,430
and that some of the people in my

1198
00:59:43,039 --> 00:59:40,940
project PM group were also aware of and

1199
00:59:45,829 --> 00:59:43,049
that was a hack of Stratford which is a

1200
00:59:46,849 --> 00:59:45,839
firm in Austin that that supposedly you

1201
00:59:48,380 --> 00:59:46,859
know wasn't the business of providing

1202
00:59:51,140 --> 00:59:48,390
sort of risk assessment to their

1203
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:51,150
high-end clientele that sort of thing it

1204
00:59:54,710 --> 00:59:53,130
turns out based on the emails stolen

1205
00:59:55,220 --> 00:59:54,720
this time and later give them to

1206
00:59:58,819 --> 00:59:55,230
WikiLeaks

1207
01:00:01,400 --> 00:59:58,829
that's this firm was spying for instance

1208
01:00:04,370 --> 01:00:01,410
on activists in Bhopal India who were

1209
01:00:06,079 --> 01:00:04,380
trying to get Union Carbide to pay more

1210
01:00:08,839 --> 01:00:06,089
restitution to the people that they had

1211
01:00:11,990 --> 01:00:08,849
maimed or left family members dead in

1212
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:12,000
the 1980 you know Bhopal disaster the

1213
01:00:15,230 --> 01:00:14,010
Dow Chemical deal that sort of thing

1214
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:15,240
they were collaborating with the FBI

1215
01:00:19,849 --> 01:00:17,730
against private citizens that the FBI

1216
01:00:22,609 --> 01:00:19,859
was giving their files to this private

1217
01:00:25,730 --> 01:00:22,619
company at the behest of their clients

1218
01:00:27,829 --> 01:00:25,740
like coca-cola for instance just very

1219
01:00:29,990 --> 01:00:27,839
bizarre stuff all you know any any one

1220
01:00:32,210 --> 01:00:30,000
of which of these stories I think should

1221
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:32,220
have been an eye-opener for people but

1222
01:00:36,859 --> 01:00:35,490
anyway so that that that hack was what

1223
01:00:39,020 --> 01:00:36,869
they originally decided to charge me in

1224
01:00:41,599 --> 01:00:39,030
connection with and you know at first

1225
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:41,609
they charged me with having copied and

1226
01:00:46,010 --> 01:00:44,010
pasted a link that Jeremy Hammond had

1227
01:00:48,529 --> 01:00:46,020
posted into one of these anonymous chat

1228
01:00:50,029 --> 01:00:48,539
servers where we do all this work I had

1229
01:00:52,010 --> 01:00:50,039
copied the link pasted it into my

1230
01:00:54,109 --> 01:00:52,020
project PM IRC Internet Relay Chat

1231
01:00:55,549 --> 01:00:54,119
server for my journalists researchers to

1232
01:00:57,559 --> 01:00:55,559
look at thinking it was some of the

1233
01:00:59,180 --> 01:00:57,569
emails mm-hm and it turned out those are

1234
01:01:00,680 --> 01:00:59,190
protic card numbers and and as you can

1235
01:01:02,569 --> 01:01:00,690
see from the transcript which was part

1236
01:01:04,039 --> 01:01:02,579
of the court record it was pretty clear

1237
01:01:05,829 --> 01:01:04,049
that I didn't know those credit card

1238
01:01:07,700 --> 01:01:05,839
numbers I asked him what was in those

1239
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:07,710
you know he says I work right he says

1240
01:01:10,579 --> 01:01:09,210
it's like B and C something like some

1241
01:01:12,650 --> 01:01:10,589
jargon I'm like oh okay whatever

1242
01:01:15,529 --> 01:01:12,660
government forensics show I never opened

1243
01:01:16,460 --> 01:01:15,539
the file they were already anyways it

1244
01:01:17,930 --> 01:01:16,470
was just it was one of those things

1245
01:01:19,099 --> 01:01:17,940
where just they had they had to charge

1246
01:01:21,140 --> 01:01:19,109
me of something and they know that even

1247
01:01:22,519 --> 01:01:21,150
if it's untenable and of course they had

1248
01:01:24,829 --> 01:01:22,529
to drop all those charges all 11 of

1249
01:01:27,230 --> 01:01:24,839
those counts for a number of reasons but

1250
01:01:28,660 --> 01:01:27,240
you know it wasn't something to charge

1251
01:01:30,950 --> 01:01:28,670
me with now eventually what I pled to

1252
01:01:33,410 --> 01:01:30,960
after after they had to drop those

1253
01:01:34,849 --> 01:01:33,420
charges which was a real embarrassment

1254
01:01:36,890 --> 01:01:34,859
to them because of the centerpiece of

1255
01:01:39,109 --> 01:01:36,900
their case they wanted me to plea to

1256
01:01:41,990 --> 01:01:39,119
something uh something in connection

1257
01:01:43,849 --> 01:01:42,000
with you know the year of active

1258
01:01:46,069 --> 01:01:43,859
anonymous so what I pled to was

1259
01:01:48,319 --> 01:01:46,079
accessory after the fact the Stratfor

1260
01:01:49,580 --> 01:01:48,329
hack because what I did was when and

1261
01:01:51,470 --> 01:01:49,590
that when the Hackett initially

1262
01:01:53,420 --> 01:01:51,480
occurred and when Jeremy Hammond and a

1263
01:01:55,250 --> 01:01:53,430
few other people were debating about

1264
01:01:57,620 --> 01:01:55,260
what to do with these emails they had

1265
01:01:59,630 --> 01:01:57,630
taken a couple of us for arguing that

1266
01:02:00,500 --> 01:01:59,640
you don't dump them online we don't know

1267
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:00,510
what's in them there could be

1268
01:02:04,070 --> 01:02:01,650
information in there that could get

1269
01:02:06,110 --> 01:02:04,080
someone hurts perhaps informants under a

1270
01:02:09,530 --> 01:02:06,120
foreign dictatorship you know who spoke

1271
01:02:12,140 --> 01:02:09,540
to them and so I called the company

1272
01:02:14,300 --> 01:02:12,150
Stratford called its executives on the

1273
01:02:16,430 --> 01:02:14,310
phone and offered to handle any

1274
01:02:18,500 --> 01:02:16,440
redactions that need to be made if these

1275
01:02:23,210 --> 01:02:18,510
emails were to indeed be dumped online

1276
01:02:24,770 --> 01:02:23,220
and that is ultimately what's and it's

1277
01:02:26,210 --> 01:02:24,780
something that the DOJ never mentioned

1278
01:02:28,250 --> 01:02:26,220
in its earlier filings but by the time

1279
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:28,260
we got into this two-year process of

1280
01:02:33,050 --> 01:02:29,970
them having to drop all these charges

1281
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:33,060
that was enough for them so when you

1282
01:02:38,090 --> 01:02:35,130
hear people who are national security

1283
01:02:39,740 --> 01:02:38,100
enthusiasts talk about how their big

1284
01:02:42,260 --> 01:02:39,750
concern is that is that people might get

1285
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:42,270
hurt from these dumps keep in mind

1286
01:02:45,230 --> 01:02:43,650
that's what I tried to do I tried to

1287
01:02:46,790 --> 01:02:45,240
rectify that and that's what they used

1288
01:02:49,130 --> 01:02:46,800
against me they don't really care if

1289
01:02:50,510 --> 01:02:49,140
someone gets killed over this they it's

1290
01:02:53,180 --> 01:02:50,520
helpful to them it helps make their case

1291
01:02:55,070 --> 01:02:53,190
and helps helps them argue for one more

1292
01:02:57,020 --> 01:02:55,080
classification now we're gonna head

1293
01:02:58,070 --> 01:02:57,030
towards a break here in about 90 seconds

1294
01:03:02,830 --> 01:02:58,080
so I'll see if I can get a quick answer

1295
01:03:06,260 --> 01:03:02,840
out of you it to me and to others the

1296
01:03:10,220 --> 01:03:06,270
Stratfor hack and the way that it was

1297
01:03:13,910 --> 01:03:10,230
done was really a sting operation wasn't

1298
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:13,920
it wasn't it more like entrapment it was

1299
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:15,090
it was something that had actually

1300
01:03:18,620 --> 01:03:16,770
initiated with some some run-of-the-mill

1301
01:03:20,210 --> 01:03:18,630
criminal hackers I think out of Eastern

1302
01:03:22,250 --> 01:03:20,220
Europe and they had taken control the

1303
01:03:24,770 --> 01:03:22,260
server secretly at some point and then

1304
01:03:26,630 --> 01:03:24,780
at some point that control was handed

1305
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:26,640
over in parts to other people who miss

1306
01:03:30,050 --> 01:03:28,290
and that made it way way too anonymous

1307
01:03:31,370 --> 01:03:30,060
so there were several people including

1308
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:31,380
myself who knew that strapper was

1309
01:03:35,210 --> 01:03:33,210
compromised right one of the people who

1310
01:03:37,100 --> 01:03:35,220
knew it was Sabu Hector Montsegur who

1311
01:03:38,750 --> 01:03:37,110
was one of the major Anonymous hackers

1312
01:03:40,310 --> 01:03:38,760
who had been involved in these previous

1313
01:03:43,490 --> 01:03:40,320
hacks that had killed all these emails

1314
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:43,500
and who unbeknownst to us had been

1315
01:03:49,790 --> 01:03:45,930
secretly discovered found identified and

1316
01:03:51,500 --> 01:03:49,800
turned by the FBI seven months prior so

1317
01:03:54,170 --> 01:03:51,510
this strapped for hack and everything

1318
01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:54,180
else that Sabu presided over was allowed

1319
01:03:59,960 --> 01:03:56,730
to happen by the FBI and that is the

1320
01:04:01,970 --> 01:03:59,970
that's the part that's the bite that

1321
01:04:03,380 --> 01:04:01,980
that is that's the real criminal

1322
01:04:06,650 --> 01:04:03,390
activity here

1323
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:06,660
and is something that has been discussed

1324
01:04:13,370 --> 01:04:10,890
but not exploited I'm sorry I had to say

1325
01:04:17,060 --> 01:04:13,380
that word but it's really the true part

1326
01:04:19,490 --> 01:04:17,070
about this Sabu this was entrapment it

1327
01:04:22,490 --> 01:04:19,500
was entrapment through and through there

1328
01:04:24,950 --> 01:04:22,500
wasn't any way to well obviously there

1329
01:04:28,370 --> 01:04:24,960
wasn't but wasn't there a legal way

1330
01:04:30,950 --> 01:04:28,380
looking back to to take advantage of the

1331
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:30,960
entrapment part of this and have all of

1332
01:04:34,700 --> 01:04:33,090
this go away there were all sorts of

1333
01:04:36,530 --> 01:04:34,710
things very much like that I mean you're

1334
01:04:38,330 --> 01:04:36,540
absolutely right that and several other

1335
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:38,340
aspects including information they

1336
01:04:41,540 --> 01:04:39,690
concealed from my lawyers and which

1337
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:41,550
ended up in the press after I was

1338
01:04:47,300 --> 01:04:44,130
sentenced showing showing again that I

1339
01:04:49,910 --> 01:04:47,310
had no intention of you know of losing

1340
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:49,920
credit card numbers that should have

1341
01:04:53,630 --> 01:04:52,290
been introduced we had a legal team that

1342
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:53,640
involved seven different people who did

1343
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:55,890
not necessarily mesh well and some

1344
01:04:59,360 --> 01:04:57,210
things that were you know pretty major

1345
01:05:00,440 --> 01:04:59,370
were actually lost in the cracks and I

1346
01:05:03,050 --> 01:05:00,450
tried to bring up a lot of them myself

1347
01:05:05,630 --> 01:05:03,060
in my allocution when I spoke to the

1348
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:05,640
judge for 10 minutes of made public well

1349
01:05:08,030 --> 01:05:06,690
you know that's just not enough

1350
01:05:10,310 --> 01:05:08,040
and this judge in particular was just

1351
01:05:12,500 --> 01:05:10,320
not he was not terribly fastidious about

1352
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:12,510
making sure that we're doing things by

1353
01:05:15,860 --> 01:05:14,250
the book that's not unusual among

1354
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:15,870
federal judges unfortunately yeah the

1355
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:19,410
crime was allowed to happen if the FBI

1356
01:05:24,590 --> 01:05:20,970
we're gonna take a break right here but

1357
01:05:26,420 --> 01:05:24,600
if the FBI was really on the up-and-up

1358
01:05:29,300 --> 01:05:26,430
and honest which they're not of course

1359
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:29,310
but they would not have allowed the

1360
01:05:33,380 --> 01:05:31,730
crime to happen and allow all of these

1361
01:05:35,540 --> 01:05:33,390
individuals to go to prison

1362
01:05:38,180 --> 01:05:35,550
it's an incredible situation our guest

1363
01:05:39,860 --> 01:05:38,190
tonight Barrett Brown this is fade to

1364
01:05:41,540 --> 01:05:39,870
black a very special failure tonight

1365
01:05:43,490 --> 01:05:41,550
we're gonna continue this discussion

1366
01:05:45,230 --> 01:05:43,500
when we come back after this short break

1367
01:06:00,120 --> 01:05:45,240
I'm heroes to be Church more with

1368
01:06:04,089 --> 01:06:01,960
this is fade to black

1369
01:06:07,780 --> 01:06:04,099
with Jimmy Church on the game changer

1370
01:06:09,599 --> 01:06:07,790
radio network and kgr a the global radio

1371
01:06:12,910 --> 01:06:09,609
alliance

1372
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:12,920
this is KCRA digital broadcasting

1373
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:16,250
station Salt Lake City Utah Van Buren

1374
01:06:20,650 --> 01:06:18,530
Arkansas does your basement or

1375
01:06:22,420 --> 01:06:20,660
crawlspace have a damp musty smell well

1376
01:06:24,550 --> 01:06:22,430
watch out that's a sign of too much

1377
01:06:26,410 --> 01:06:24,560
moisture and not enough ventilation and

1378
01:06:28,540 --> 01:06:26,420
that can mean increased mold growth and

1379
01:06:30,790 --> 01:06:28,550
the build-up of harmful toxins and gases

1380
01:06:32,950 --> 01:06:30,800
don't bother with a dehumidifier it just

1381
01:06:34,780 --> 01:06:32,960
circulates the same unhealthy air now

1382
01:06:36,609 --> 01:06:34,790
there's a better way to remove these

1383
01:06:39,010 --> 01:06:36,619
dangers and odors it's with the

1384
01:06:40,809 --> 01:06:39,020
computerized wave moisture control unit

1385
01:06:42,430 --> 01:06:40,819
that reduces moisture and expels

1386
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:42,440
pollutants we replaced our old

1387
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:44,450
dehumidifier with the wave unit and in

1388
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:46,730
only three weeks our basement is dry and

1389
01:06:51,069 --> 01:06:49,130
the musty smell is gone wave units

1390
01:06:53,380 --> 01:06:51,079
require no maintenance no buckets of

1391
01:06:55,420 --> 01:06:53,390
water or filters and costs only pennies

1392
01:06:57,220 --> 01:06:55,430
a day to run breathe better live

1393
01:06:59,620 --> 01:06:57,230
healthier with an affordable no

1394
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maintenance wave unit call eight eight

1395
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eight seven one seven way eight eight

1396
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:13,900
home solutions

1397
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:26,780
hi this is Ray sobs here reppin the

1398
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:28,650
planet and you're listening to my good

1399
01:07:34,220 --> 01:07:31,650
friend Jimmy Church fade to black

1400
01:07:38,780 --> 01:07:34,230
on the GameChanger network and the kgr a

1401
01:07:40,910 --> 01:07:38,790
digital broadcast station this is Toby

1402
01:08:03,830 --> 01:07:40,920
Kebbell you're listening to Jimmy Church

1403
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:03,840
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1407
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also legal in all 50 states when you're

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healthy you're happy the truth about

1409
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this wonderful plant is that it wants to

1410
01:08:27,110 --> 01:08:23,970
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1411
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happiness ancient life oil are gold and

1412
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1413
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with high-quality liquid coconut oil

1414
01:08:38,420 --> 01:08:35,069
it's simple just go to ancient life oil

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01:08:42,260 --> 01:08:38,430
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1416
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1417
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1418
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1419
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products have not been evaluated by the

1420
01:08:52,010 --> 01:08:50,790
Food and Drug Administration these

1421
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:52,020
products are not intended to diagnose

1422
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:53,970
treat cure or prevent any disease please

1423
01:08:56,660 --> 01:08:54,930
consult your healthcare professional

1424
01:08:58,579 --> 01:08:56,670
about potential interactions or other

1425
01:09:00,260 --> 01:08:58,589
possible complications before using any

1426
01:09:02,059 --> 01:09:00,270
product this is Micah Hanks of the

1427
01:09:04,460 --> 01:09:02,069
graylien report and you're listening to

1428
01:09:06,289 --> 01:09:04,470
Jimmy church on fade to black across the

1429
01:09:08,930 --> 01:09:06,299
globe on the GameChanger radio network

1430
01:09:09,780 --> 01:09:08,940
and the one and only kgr a radio the

1431
01:09:13,990 --> 01:09:09,790
planet

1432
01:09:14,290 --> 01:09:14,000
[Music]

1433
01:09:29,470 --> 01:09:14,300
[Applause]

1434
01:09:34,130 --> 01:09:31,970
all right welcome back fade to black I'm

1435
01:09:36,970 --> 01:09:34,140
here to be Church very special failure

1436
01:09:39,169 --> 01:09:36,980
night tonight we have Barrett Brown here

1437
01:09:40,700 --> 01:09:39,179
we're gonna open up the phone lines at

1438
01:09:44,209 --> 01:09:40,710
the bottom of the hour three two three

1439
01:09:46,399 --> 01:09:44,219
eight two five five zero four five so

1440
01:09:48,470 --> 01:09:46,409
get ready for that I'm not opening up

1441
01:09:49,970 --> 01:09:48,480
the phone lines yet so don't start

1442
01:09:50,630 --> 01:09:49,980
dialing but we'll do that at the bottom

1443
01:09:54,189 --> 01:09:50,640
of the hour

1444
01:09:57,380 --> 01:09:54,199
and Barrett okay

1445
01:10:00,410 --> 01:09:57,390
prisons behind you you're walking out

1446
01:10:02,149 --> 01:10:00,420
you've got your your bags your you're

1447
01:10:06,979 --> 01:10:02,159
walking out of prison your mom is there

1448
01:10:10,250 --> 01:10:06,989
to greet you as you left and that door

1449
01:10:12,709 --> 01:10:10,260
closes behind you what went through your

1450
01:10:14,959 --> 01:10:12,719
mind at that point okay that really

1451
01:10:17,419 --> 01:10:14,969
sucked I'm never coming back I'm

1452
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:17,429
reformed did that thought go through

1453
01:10:20,810 --> 01:10:19,290
your mind I mean what as you were

1454
01:10:25,580 --> 01:10:20,820
walking up to your mom what were you

1455
01:10:28,100 --> 01:10:25,590
thinking about assumed that I think the

1456
01:10:30,229 --> 01:10:28,110
the prison was prison staff themselves

1457
01:10:34,340 --> 01:10:30,239
were pretty certain that they'd see me

1458
01:10:37,340 --> 01:10:34,350
again someday and you know I've uh I was

1459
01:10:39,050 --> 01:10:37,350
I was I had already been on record doing

1460
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:39,060
interviews from prison about what I

1461
01:10:43,490 --> 01:10:40,650
would be doing when I left and that of

1462
01:10:49,010 --> 01:10:43,500
course was uh was starting the pursuance

1463
01:10:51,919 --> 01:10:49,020
project and and the the emotional part

1464
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:51,929
of of seeing your parents again we're

1465
01:10:55,130 --> 01:10:53,730
gonna move on from this right now but I

1466
01:10:58,550 --> 01:10:55,140
would just want to get inside of your

1467
01:11:03,320 --> 01:10:58,560
mind because when you're in prison for

1468
01:11:04,820 --> 01:11:03,330
for that length of time now being you

1469
01:11:06,709 --> 01:11:04,830
know free while you're on your way to a

1470
01:11:12,050 --> 01:11:06,719
halfway house you're not exactly free

1471
01:11:16,419 --> 01:11:12,060
but what was that like did did you have

1472
01:11:19,820 --> 01:11:16,429
any issues with reality I mean because

1473
01:11:21,140 --> 01:11:19,830
now you can do things like walk around

1474
01:11:24,110 --> 01:11:21,150
and change your mind and not have

1475
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:24,120
somebody around you and and and and the

1476
01:11:30,890 --> 01:11:26,730
confinement part you're free again does

1477
01:11:32,899 --> 01:11:30,900
that take a little bit of adjusting yeah

1478
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:32,909
readjusting back to civilian life was

1479
01:11:36,950 --> 01:11:34,290
harder than adjusted to prison in the

1480
01:11:39,110 --> 01:11:36,960
first place I can only imagine I can

1481
01:11:42,229 --> 01:11:39,120
only imagine that there was a shot of

1482
01:11:42,690 --> 01:11:42,239
you and where you guys stopped at like a

1483
01:11:43,890 --> 01:11:42,700
truck

1484
01:11:48,630 --> 01:11:43,900
stop or something when you were driving

1485
01:11:50,340 --> 01:11:48,640
to the halfway house and you were like

1486
01:11:54,630 --> 01:11:50,350
in a bathroom I think you know what I'm

1487
01:11:57,210 --> 01:11:54,640
talking about but I looked to me like

1488
01:12:01,500 --> 01:11:57,220
you were you were right there like wow

1489
01:12:02,970 --> 01:12:01,510
okay a you weren't comfortable I guess

1490
01:12:03,450 --> 01:12:02,980
it's the best way to put it you weren't

1491
01:12:06,090 --> 01:12:03,460
were you

1492
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:06,100
oh no not at all but for one thing we

1493
01:12:11,340 --> 01:12:08,050
had we had a certain amount of time to

1494
01:12:13,830 --> 01:12:11,350
get to get from the border of Mexico

1495
01:12:15,870 --> 01:12:13,840
where my prison was in South Texas to

1496
01:12:18,090 --> 01:12:15,880
Dallas and they originally did not give

1497
01:12:19,350 --> 01:12:18,100
us sufficient time and I happen to know

1498
01:12:21,570 --> 01:12:19,360
from talking other inmates that they

1499
01:12:24,060 --> 01:12:21,580
will put out another warrant for you if

1500
01:12:25,350 --> 01:12:24,070
you are late and unaccounted for at that

1501
01:12:26,700 --> 01:12:25,360
halfway house so I had first tried to

1502
01:12:28,890 --> 01:12:26,710
argue for more time that we would have

1503
01:12:31,620 --> 01:12:28,900
seven hours to drive this thing that

1504
01:12:33,270 --> 01:12:31,630
takes about seven hours and you know we

1505
01:12:36,270 --> 01:12:33,280
were there making a documentary about me

1506
01:12:39,810 --> 01:12:36,280
in time so we had a lot you know lots of

1507
01:12:42,510 --> 01:12:39,820
worry abouts and having said that just

1508
01:12:44,940 --> 01:12:42,520
in general that the halfway house I was

1509
01:12:46,440 --> 01:12:44,950
not excited about that and I actually

1510
01:12:47,850 --> 01:12:46,450
considered staying in prison for the

1511
01:12:49,380 --> 01:12:47,860
last six months rather than take that

1512
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:49,390
halfway house time the reason they gave

1513
01:12:51,780 --> 01:12:50,650
me so much halfway house time which is

1514
01:12:53,550 --> 01:12:51,790
six months is actually pretty unusual

1515
01:12:54,870 --> 01:12:53,560
these days is to get me out of there

1516
01:12:57,390 --> 01:12:54,880
because I was filing a lot of

1517
01:13:00,120 --> 01:12:57,400
administrative remedies the

1518
01:13:01,650 --> 01:13:00,130
administrative remedy forms based on due

1519
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:01,660
process violations obviously I was

1520
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:03,850
writing a column that was pretty popular

1521
01:13:07,890 --> 01:13:05,290
and won the National Magazine Award

1522
01:13:11,310 --> 01:13:07,900
about that prison and about the DOP in

1523
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:11,320
general so they didn't want me there but

1524
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:13,210
you know the halfway house if you go to

1525
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:15,010
a whole nother thing and now it's you

1526
01:13:20,370 --> 01:13:18,730
know you it doesn't have the same charms

1527
01:13:26,670 --> 01:13:20,380
its prison - oh so I'll tell you that

1528
01:13:32,130 --> 01:13:26,680
there's the same charms okay Wow okay

1529
01:13:35,370 --> 01:13:32,140
okay now let's let's go to today since

1530
01:13:38,900 --> 01:13:35,380
your release which was November 2016 the

1531
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:38,910
you have seen this country go through

1532
01:13:44,430 --> 01:13:41,890
the world goes who through some crazy

1533
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:44,440
things with not only Internet privacy

1534
01:13:53,510 --> 01:13:48,610
certainly WikiLeaks and and emails data

1535
01:13:56,130 --> 01:13:53,520
mining fake news crazy controlled

1536
01:13:59,010 --> 01:13:56,140
journalism with an agenda

1537
01:14:02,240 --> 01:13:59,020
all of the things that you had warned us

1538
01:14:06,060 --> 01:14:02,250
about in your writings leading up to

1539
01:14:09,270 --> 01:14:06,070
2016 here we are today

1540
01:14:10,770 --> 01:14:09,280
what does anything surprise you right

1541
01:14:15,030 --> 01:14:10,780
now where we are with the internet

1542
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:15,040
privacy journalism mass media and fake

1543
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:18,970
news I'm mostly the one thing that keeps

1544
01:14:23,670 --> 01:14:20,530
surprising me is the extent to which

1545
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:23,680
people have just given up on nuance it's

1546
01:14:28,140 --> 01:14:25,810
very difficult for me to make an

1547
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:28,150
argument that someone look at and Wrekin

1548
01:14:34,950 --> 01:14:32,050
and believe is on route to another

1549
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:34,960
arguments as in if I say look the FBI's

1550
01:14:38,270 --> 01:14:36,010
corrupt look at this

1551
01:14:40,890 --> 01:14:38,280
people think that I'm supporting Trump

1552
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:40,900
if I say the exact table if I say you

1553
01:14:46,020 --> 01:14:44,050
know something on the exact opposite of

1554
01:14:47,460 --> 01:14:46,030
the party line people will just take

1555
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:47,470
that and extrapolate from it so it's

1556
01:14:53,940 --> 01:14:50,890
very hard to say look you know these

1557
01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:53,950
these organizations the DOJ the FBI the

1558
01:14:58,680 --> 01:14:56,650
CIA we should not be we should not be

1559
01:14:59,850 --> 01:14:58,690
cozying up to them regardless of what

1560
01:15:01,530 --> 01:14:59,860
you know what you think of the

1561
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:01,540
investigation these are not

1562
01:15:06,330 --> 01:15:04,090
fundamentally sound groups they never

1563
01:15:07,860 --> 01:15:06,340
really have been they've differed so

1564
01:15:10,050 --> 01:15:07,870
it's it's people have become I think

1565
01:15:11,460 --> 01:15:10,060
more intellectually dishonest I think I

1566
01:15:15,930 --> 01:15:11,470
think obviously people have gotten the

1567
01:15:18,300 --> 01:15:15,940
opportunity to avoid reasons criticism

1568
01:15:19,650 --> 01:15:18,310
of their positions by going online and

1569
01:15:21,870 --> 01:15:19,660
just reading you know a certain array of

1570
01:15:23,850 --> 01:15:21,880
people who think like them and they have

1571
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:23,860
they have not availed themselves the

1572
01:15:29,190 --> 01:15:27,370
opportunity to to look at look at all

1573
01:15:30,810 --> 01:15:29,200
the facts and judge both positions on

1574
01:15:31,890 --> 01:15:30,820
any issue before making up their mind

1575
01:15:34,470 --> 01:15:31,900
and that's that selling it was already

1576
01:15:36,900 --> 01:15:34,480
happening but the extent to which that's

1577
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:36,910
gotten worse that that's what's

1578
01:15:42,780 --> 01:15:39,610
horrified be most it seems to have

1579
01:15:46,500 --> 01:15:42,790
happened pretty quickly now it built up

1580
01:15:48,780 --> 01:15:46,510
to this point for for a you know a

1581
01:15:51,330 --> 01:15:48,790
couple of decades but certainly the

1582
01:15:54,930 --> 01:15:51,340
divisive 'no sand the effectiveness of

1583
01:15:57,900 --> 01:15:54,940
of different media platforms out there

1584
01:16:01,050 --> 01:15:57,910
with the internet to divide and caused

1585
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:01,060
this anger in and the anger now is

1586
01:16:05,580 --> 01:16:03,370
everywhere is there a way to pull it

1587
01:16:08,910 --> 01:16:05,590
back and get everybody back on the same

1588
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:08,920
page no I don't think there is I think I

1589
01:16:10,870 --> 01:16:09,410
think

1590
01:16:12,790 --> 01:16:10,880
we were ill-served by all the rhetoric

1591
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:12,800
about this being one nation and we're

1592
01:16:16,450 --> 01:16:15,170
all you know deep down where we have fun

1593
01:16:18,490 --> 01:16:16,460
of no things in common we really don't

1594
01:16:19,540 --> 01:16:18,500
there's this is a fractured nation and

1595
01:16:21,190 --> 01:16:19,550
there's no reason to expect that it

1596
01:16:23,110 --> 01:16:21,200
shouldn't be there there are not

1597
01:16:25,450 --> 01:16:23,120
fundamentals in which everyone agrees on

1598
01:16:29,130 --> 01:16:25,460
it's just not the case and so I think

1599
01:16:31,420 --> 01:16:29,140
the best strategy going forward is for

1600
01:16:33,610 --> 01:16:31,430
those people who agree on these sort of

1601
01:16:34,990 --> 01:16:33,620
open society ideas in general they're

1602
01:16:36,850 --> 01:16:35,000
opposed the surveillance state a post

1603
01:16:39,340 --> 01:16:36,860
the police state sort of things of that

1604
01:16:42,030 --> 01:16:39,350
nature should work together more

1605
01:16:44,020 --> 01:16:42,040
efficiently figure out how they can

1606
01:16:47,020 --> 01:16:44,030
address their fundamentals and how they

1607
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:47,030
organize how they how they try to affect

1608
01:16:54,100 --> 01:16:50,930
change and just sort of prepare prepare

1609
01:16:56,650 --> 01:16:54,110
for whatever may happen the the warnings

1610
01:17:02,800 --> 01:16:56,660
were there right the warnings were there

1611
01:17:06,340 --> 01:17:02,810
like 1984 brave new world and we all

1612
01:17:08,380 --> 01:17:06,350
knew that this day could arrive but we

1613
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:08,390
considered it brilliant writing and

1614
01:17:14,230 --> 01:17:10,970
science fiction I don't think anybody is

1615
01:17:17,710 --> 01:17:14,240
surprised where we are today that we are

1616
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:17,720
here but we indeed are and these things

1617
01:17:23,590 --> 01:17:20,690
have come to pass and it seems like

1618
01:17:26,650 --> 01:17:23,600
nobody wants to do anything about it but

1619
01:17:28,690 --> 01:17:26,660
well except for yourself and and me I I

1620
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:28,700
don't I don't get it

1621
01:17:33,130 --> 01:17:31,850
why everybody was aware of it but now

1622
01:17:36,100 --> 01:17:33,140
they don't want to do anything

1623
01:17:37,750 --> 01:17:36,110
I think civic virtue whether it be the

1624
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:37,760
forms that we may agree with or disagree

1625
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:42,010
with you know just the impulse to act

1626
01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:44,690
self risk if necessary that was so it

1627
01:17:48,580 --> 01:17:46,250
was very much in play in the 60s and 70s

1628
01:17:50,860 --> 01:17:48,590
on on both sides whether it be

1629
01:17:52,630 --> 01:17:50,870
Nixon's people or the you know anti-war

1630
01:17:55,780 --> 01:17:52,640
people and so forth people were more

1631
01:17:57,670 --> 01:17:55,790
willing to do unusual adventurous things

1632
01:18:00,070 --> 01:17:57,680
if they thought it was necessary that's

1633
01:18:02,050 --> 01:18:00,080
something that is that is slowly just

1634
01:18:03,670 --> 01:18:02,060
deteriorated in this country as far as I

1635
01:18:05,380 --> 01:18:03,680
can tell you know I was born at 21 so

1636
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:05,390
what do I know but from what I can tell

1637
01:18:08,590 --> 01:18:06,770
and from what I can hear from people who

1638
01:18:10,660 --> 01:18:08,600
were around this is a different

1639
01:18:13,270 --> 01:18:10,670
population people are different people

1640
01:18:17,140 --> 01:18:13,280
my age in particular you know the

1641
01:18:18,580 --> 01:18:17,150
internet which I have obviously the you

1642
01:18:20,770 --> 01:18:18,590
know depend upon for the things I want

1643
01:18:24,569 --> 01:18:20,780
to do I think it does have a very

1644
01:18:29,889 --> 01:18:28,000
the adventurism that the adventurism

1645
01:18:32,790 --> 01:18:29,899
that was the norm back in the 18th and

1646
01:18:36,219 --> 01:18:32,800
19th centuries and now there's another

1647
01:18:38,589 --> 01:18:36,229
fascinating thing about this that not

1648
01:18:41,919 --> 01:18:38,599
only that you write about but I think

1649
01:18:44,049 --> 01:18:41,929
while becoming very aware is that in the

1650
01:18:47,259 --> 01:18:44,059
18th and 19th centuries certainly going

1651
01:18:50,379 --> 01:18:47,269
all the way up to the 80s before the

1652
01:18:54,159 --> 01:18:50,389
internet it was a slow process for

1653
01:18:55,299 --> 01:18:54,169
change or to affect emotions it was it

1654
01:18:57,850 --> 01:18:55,309
was slow a lot of it was even

1655
01:18:58,719 --> 01:18:57,860
word-of-mouth or flyers or magazines and

1656
01:19:02,949 --> 01:18:58,729
that kind of thing

1657
01:19:05,529 --> 01:19:02,959
today it is down to nanoseconds where

1658
01:19:08,560 --> 01:19:05,539
you have millions of people that are

1659
01:19:11,649 --> 01:19:08,570
reacting literally at the click of a

1660
01:19:13,540 --> 01:19:11,659
mouse worldwide that is something that

1661
01:19:15,729 --> 01:19:13,550
is completely spun out of control and

1662
01:19:18,819 --> 01:19:15,739
the man and and the media outlets

1663
01:19:23,889 --> 01:19:18,829
understand this it's a nanosecond away

1664
01:19:27,189 --> 01:19:23,899
from crazy emotions there are there are

1665
01:19:29,169 --> 01:19:27,199
several just vastly fundamental changes

1666
01:19:31,299 --> 01:19:29,179
of the sort we've never seen this degree

1667
01:19:33,159 --> 01:19:31,309
of that have come into play sort of all

1668
01:19:33,719 --> 01:19:33,169
centered around the internet since I was

1669
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:33,729
born

1670
01:19:38,169 --> 01:19:36,050
historically speaking you know going

1671
01:19:39,339 --> 01:19:38,179
from the 1980s situation where you do

1672
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:39,349
have you have international phone calls

1673
01:19:43,060 --> 01:19:41,570
and you have letters and and all that

1674
01:19:45,939 --> 01:19:43,070
we're kind of if we consider ourself a

1675
01:19:49,869 --> 01:19:45,949
connected world going to 15 20 years

1676
01:19:51,969 --> 01:19:49,879
later it is a fundamental difference in

1677
01:19:53,529 --> 01:19:51,979
the environments to have anyone in the

1678
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:53,539
world be able to collaborate with anyone

1679
01:19:56,589 --> 01:19:55,010
else in the world that is something that

1680
01:19:57,699 --> 01:19:56,599
had human history have you always had

1681
01:19:59,500 --> 01:19:57,709
that power have we had sometimes

1682
01:20:01,719 --> 01:19:59,510
telepathy whereby you could have

1683
01:20:05,500 --> 01:20:01,729
organized with people in China from

1684
01:20:06,729 --> 01:20:05,510
Britain in 1400 the entire obviously the

1685
01:20:08,799 --> 01:20:06,739
entire history our history would be

1686
01:20:10,089 --> 01:20:08,809
vastly different so suddenly this has

1687
01:20:12,339 --> 01:20:10,099
come into play suddenly this is now

1688
01:20:13,719 --> 01:20:12,349
possible and a lot of people haven't

1689
01:20:15,399 --> 01:20:13,729
really thought about what that means

1690
01:20:16,509 --> 01:20:15,409
there are some people who think about it

1691
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:16,519
very much and those are the people at

1692
01:20:20,469 --> 01:20:19,010
DARPA I ARPA some of these companies

1693
01:20:23,469 --> 01:20:20,479
that are that are sort of given the task

1694
01:20:24,729 --> 01:20:23,479
of managing the government's response to

1695
01:20:28,719 --> 01:20:24,739
the things that they think of it come

1696
01:20:32,080 --> 01:20:28,729
down the pike let's talk about what you

1697
01:20:34,270 --> 01:20:32,090
are doing now with the pursuance project

1698
01:20:36,890 --> 01:20:34,280
tell us about that because this

1699
01:20:39,500 --> 01:20:36,900
addresses all of these chain

1700
01:20:40,610 --> 01:20:39,510
is that impossible I mean these are

1701
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:40,620
basically the issues that I'm obsessed

1702
01:20:45,709 --> 01:20:44,010
with the issues of in the broad issue of

1703
01:20:47,090 --> 01:20:45,719
yes now we can now collaborate now

1704
01:20:49,850 --> 01:20:47,100
things are fundamentally different the

1705
01:20:53,450 --> 01:20:49,860
nation-state the geographical you know

1706
01:20:54,890 --> 01:20:53,460
associationism that is informed all of

1707
01:20:56,510 --> 01:20:54,900
our structures all of our political

1708
01:20:58,399 --> 01:20:56,520
institutions they all date back from

1709
01:21:00,590 --> 01:20:58,409
when it made sense to work with your

1710
01:21:03,020 --> 01:21:00,600
neighbors and there was no other option

1711
01:21:04,550 --> 01:21:03,030
and so these these institutions they've

1712
01:21:06,169 --> 01:21:04,560
come into that they've continued on to

1713
01:21:08,209 --> 01:21:06,179
this age and they've changed a bit but

1714
01:21:10,310 --> 01:21:08,219
most of them are not capable of changing

1715
01:21:12,620 --> 01:21:10,320
fundamentally and adapting to these new

1716
01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:12,630
realities and so you know some of them

1717
01:21:17,600 --> 01:21:14,250
will do better than others in the

1718
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:17,610
meantime those of us who are keen on

1719
01:21:23,240 --> 01:21:20,130
history and are thus worried about what

1720
01:21:24,350 --> 01:21:23,250
might be happening soon you know even

1721
01:21:26,540 --> 01:21:24,360
even though things have been going on in

1722
01:21:29,780 --> 01:21:26,550
the last 10 years or so

1723
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:29,790
I think pales compared to what may very

1724
01:21:35,060 --> 01:21:31,890
well happen the next 20 years and so

1725
01:21:37,100 --> 01:21:35,070
those of us who want who look at it that

1726
01:21:38,810 --> 01:21:37,110
way who think that these are times in

1727
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:38,820
which profound change can occur and

1728
01:21:43,399 --> 01:21:41,850
either will be will be done by others

1729
01:21:47,140 --> 01:21:43,409
who we may disagree with or will be done

1730
01:21:49,490 --> 01:21:47,150
by us we have the responsibility to

1731
01:21:51,110 --> 01:21:49,500
approach this question this this key

1732
01:21:53,540 --> 01:21:51,120
problem in 21st century which is how you

1733
01:21:56,419 --> 01:21:53,550
organize large numbers of people that

1734
01:21:58,729 --> 01:21:56,429
you agree with in some basic way and get

1735
01:22:00,919 --> 01:21:58,739
them to act in a way that's not just fun

1736
01:22:02,060 --> 01:22:00,929
and you know histrionic it doesn't

1737
01:22:03,860 --> 01:22:02,070
involve just going in the streets and

1738
01:22:07,610 --> 01:22:03,870
shouting and holding sirens but that

1739
01:22:09,680 --> 01:22:07,620
really can grow perpetually while

1740
01:22:11,899 --> 01:22:09,690
refining itself never becoming

1741
01:22:15,080 --> 01:22:11,909
overburdened you know while still being

1742
01:22:17,180 --> 01:22:15,090
able to grow quickly and adapt that's

1743
01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:17,190
what the pursuance system that we're

1744
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:19,290
building is intended to do for people

1745
01:22:22,990 --> 01:22:20,850
who believe in the open society who were

1746
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:23,000
opposed to authoritarian governments

1747
01:22:31,250 --> 01:22:25,770
this is this is sorry I was gonna say

1748
01:22:33,140 --> 01:22:31,260
give me an example of a project yes so

1749
01:22:34,220 --> 01:22:33,150
this is something that is that is geared

1750
01:22:35,990 --> 01:22:34,230
towards a couple different

1751
01:22:37,820 --> 01:22:36,000
constituencies one of which is the

1752
01:22:39,380 --> 01:22:37,830
people like those and anonymous or

1753
01:22:41,380 --> 01:22:39,390
telecomix or these other groups that

1754
01:22:44,620 --> 01:22:41,390
were sort of on the cutting edge of of

1755
01:22:47,209 --> 01:22:44,630
working together online against

1756
01:22:48,709 --> 01:22:47,219
criminalized institutions and thinking

1757
01:22:50,420 --> 01:22:48,719
up new effective ways of doing that this

1758
01:22:53,870 --> 01:22:50,430
is a way of letting them

1759
01:22:56,720 --> 01:22:53,880
organize in a more effective way than

1760
01:22:58,070 --> 01:22:56,730
the amorphous kind of haphazard ways

1761
01:22:59,750 --> 01:22:58,080
that we did with anonymous and some of

1762
01:23:01,880 --> 01:22:59,760
these other things back then it's also a

1763
01:23:03,080 --> 01:23:01,890
way for existing institutions you know

1764
01:23:05,720 --> 01:23:03,090
groups that are out fighting for civil

1765
01:23:08,030 --> 01:23:05,730
liberties opposing transparency on

1766
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:08,040
government to better make use of the

1767
01:23:13,250 --> 01:23:09,810
people who support their causes to not

1768
01:23:15,380 --> 01:23:13,260
just have them sign petitions and make

1769
01:23:18,950 --> 01:23:15,390
donations but to get them a raid into a

1770
01:23:22,610 --> 01:23:18,960
sort of self organized network that can

1771
01:23:25,220 --> 01:23:22,620
grow again and sort of become a real a

1772
01:23:26,540 --> 01:23:25,230
real asset to those groups and to have

1773
01:23:28,430 --> 01:23:26,550
them work together and as well as

1774
01:23:30,230 --> 01:23:28,440
journalists we want journalists to be

1775
01:23:31,880 --> 01:23:30,240
able to use this for crowdsourcing which

1776
01:23:34,430 --> 01:23:31,890
is a which is a very powerful tool that

1777
01:23:36,110 --> 01:23:34,440
we use to good effect in 2011 you know

1778
01:23:39,050 --> 01:23:36,120
we did it such a good job that the FBI

1779
01:23:41,510 --> 01:23:39,060
came down on us so these these are some

1780
01:23:43,010 --> 01:23:41,520
of the basic uses but one civic example

1781
01:23:44,510 --> 01:23:43,020
that I'll be involved in to give an

1782
01:23:46,880 --> 01:23:44,520
example of what this kind of this thing

1783
01:23:49,820 --> 01:23:46,890
can do when we're putting together a

1784
01:23:52,550 --> 01:23:49,830
prison reform project we're going to be

1785
01:23:54,350 --> 01:23:52,560
creating a information package for

1786
01:23:55,730 --> 01:23:54,360
journalists in regional markets for the

1787
01:23:57,890 --> 01:23:55,740
local newspapers that kind of thing

1788
01:24:01,130 --> 01:23:57,900
local television stations and teaching

1789
01:24:04,190 --> 01:24:01,140
them how to cover prisons effectively by

1790
01:24:06,530 --> 01:24:04,200
using FOI requests for the grievance

1791
01:24:07,820 --> 01:24:06,540
forms that inmates file in prisons when

1792
01:24:09,710 --> 01:24:07,830
they want to go to court you know prove

1793
01:24:11,180 --> 01:24:09,720
it inmates aren't allowed to just write

1794
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:11,190
to a judge and say hey I'm being kept in

1795
01:24:14,210 --> 01:24:12,690
a Cell and beaten every day and they

1796
01:24:16,850 --> 01:24:14,220
haven't told me why they have to go

1797
01:24:18,620 --> 01:24:16,860
through this process that Congress laid

1798
01:24:20,420 --> 01:24:18,630
on us back in 1996

1799
01:24:22,310 --> 01:24:20,430
whereby the prison itself gets to

1800
01:24:23,930 --> 01:24:22,320
oversee the process so they have to say

1801
01:24:26,150 --> 01:24:23,940
okay you've turned this in on time and

1802
01:24:27,230 --> 01:24:26,160
we're definitely gonna you know put that

1803
01:24:29,450 --> 01:24:27,240
in the record and we're gonna submit it

1804
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:29,460
to the next branch of the VOP so on and

1805
01:24:35,420 --> 01:24:31,050
so forth all the state prisons have this

1806
01:24:37,670 --> 01:24:35,430
the federal prison has it so those as I

1807
01:24:39,230 --> 01:24:37,680
documented in my column tend not to go

1808
01:24:40,160 --> 01:24:39,240
very far you could have expected that if

1809
01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:40,170
you would thought you know if you

1810
01:24:45,590 --> 01:24:43,370
thought about you know how viable is a

1811
01:24:48,290 --> 01:24:45,600
self defense mechanism that relies on

1812
01:24:52,010 --> 01:24:48,300
your enemy to function and so we're

1813
01:24:53,900 --> 01:24:52,020
going to be working with journalists to

1814
01:24:56,300 --> 01:24:53,910
- we're gonna show them that not only

1815
01:24:58,550 --> 01:24:56,310
can they can they effectively and

1816
01:25:00,410 --> 01:24:58,560
crucially cover these prisons cover

1817
01:25:01,850 --> 01:25:00,420
what's going on in him but also do it in

1818
01:25:02,690 --> 01:25:01,860
a way that helps them and that's very

1819
01:25:04,010 --> 01:25:02,700
important when you're dealing with a lot

1820
01:25:04,250 --> 01:25:04,020
of journalists and most of their career

1821
01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:04,260
risk

1822
01:25:08,030 --> 01:25:06,570
so we're always keen to point out that

1823
01:25:09,050 --> 01:25:08,040
this will make your job easier so

1824
01:25:10,730 --> 01:25:09,060
there's a number of projects like that

1825
01:25:12,380 --> 01:25:10,740
that are intended to like take people

1826
01:25:14,810 --> 01:25:12,390
who have these skills and want to help

1827
01:25:16,670 --> 01:25:14,820
do something and get them arrayed into

1828
01:25:18,710 --> 01:25:16,680
something where they can they can decide

1829
01:25:20,870 --> 01:25:18,720
the terms of their involvement and then

1830
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:20,880
grow and interact with something else

1831
01:25:26,570 --> 01:25:22,410
that's broken so if you think it

1832
01:25:28,790 --> 01:25:26,580
pursuance if you think of the state or

1833
01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:28,800
any institution as a big old building

1834
01:25:33,050 --> 01:25:31,130
that's kind of crumbling in some places

1835
01:25:35,690 --> 01:25:33,060
maybe it has cracks in the foundation

1836
01:25:37,310 --> 01:25:35,700
maybe it is a paint job you don't all

1837
01:25:39,050 --> 01:25:37,320
have to agree on what needs to be done

1838
01:25:40,550 --> 01:25:39,060
with the building ultimately in order to

1839
01:25:43,250 --> 01:25:40,560
start building scaffolding around it and

1840
01:25:45,950 --> 01:25:43,260
get together on the parts that with the

1841
01:25:47,300 --> 01:25:45,960
ones that you all agree on the other

1842
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:47,310
thing about scaffolding is you can fix

1843
01:25:51,290 --> 01:25:50,010
nuts to it so when the building starts

1844
01:25:53,630 --> 01:25:51,300
crumbling down in the future

1845
01:25:56,300 --> 01:25:53,640
bricks won't fall on people below that's

1846
01:26:00,550 --> 01:25:56,310
what pursuance is for States and it

1847
01:26:03,890 --> 01:26:00,560
could could it also I envision

1848
01:26:06,410 --> 01:26:03,900
environmental issues and and and

1849
01:26:10,070 --> 01:26:06,420
tackling that and and taking on those

1850
01:26:12,950 --> 01:26:10,080
big corporations that are messing with

1851
01:26:16,070 --> 01:26:12,960
the environment or maybe fracking or

1852
01:26:18,620 --> 01:26:16,080
maybe plant some trees and or you know

1853
01:26:20,660 --> 01:26:18,630
what I mean is there it is absolutely it

1854
01:26:23,150 --> 01:26:20,670
doesn't matter right it doesn't matter

1855
01:26:24,950 --> 01:26:23,160
it's just whatever you want to pursue it

1856
01:26:26,930 --> 01:26:24,960
is it is essentially an organizing

1857
01:26:29,360 --> 01:26:26,940
platform it's a platform for masses of

1858
01:26:32,150 --> 01:26:29,370
it collaboration it's it's it's it's

1859
01:26:34,550 --> 01:26:32,160
that we call a process democracy so all

1860
01:26:36,020 --> 01:26:34,560
the participants and participants you

1861
01:26:37,370 --> 01:26:36,030
know come in by invitation from existing

1862
01:26:38,330 --> 01:26:37,380
participants that's how it grows over

1863
01:26:41,240 --> 01:26:38,340
time and of course it would grow

1864
01:26:42,470 --> 01:26:41,250
exponentially like those things do they

1865
01:26:44,120 --> 01:26:42,480
decide what they're going to work on

1866
01:26:45,320 --> 01:26:44,130
they anyone comes in create this

1867
01:26:48,170 --> 01:26:45,330
pursuance which is this living

1868
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:48,180
organizational chart sort of thing and

1869
01:26:51,410 --> 01:26:50,010
this ecosystem arises where all these

1870
01:26:53,900 --> 01:26:51,420
different projects are taking shape and

1871
01:26:55,340 --> 01:26:53,910
they you can see what they are to the

1872
01:26:56,690 --> 01:26:55,350
extent that they're visible you know

1873
01:26:59,630 --> 01:26:56,700
obviously some projects or more need

1874
01:27:01,790 --> 01:26:59,640
more security than others but it'll be

1875
01:27:03,200 --> 01:27:01,800
much easier in this ecosystem to find

1876
01:27:04,700 --> 01:27:03,210
the people that you want to work with

1877
01:27:07,070 --> 01:27:04,710
and find the people with the skills that

1878
01:27:08,960 --> 01:27:07,080
you need and offer them a position in

1879
01:27:10,850 --> 01:27:08,970
this little group you've started than it

1880
01:27:13,100 --> 01:27:10,860
is anywhere else it'll be more secure as

1881
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:13,110
well since it's in encrypted you know

1882
01:27:15,980 --> 01:27:14,610
nothing is 1% secure but we have

1883
01:27:18,320 --> 01:27:15,990
additional layers that are just not

1884
01:27:20,060 --> 01:27:18,330
available to people who are using slow

1885
01:27:22,730 --> 01:27:20,070
right now for these things or Facebook

1886
01:27:24,940 --> 01:27:22,740
no right Rob where can everybody go

1887
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:24,950
check out the project right now

1888
01:27:32,900 --> 01:27:30,650
pursuance projects or bits pu r su ance

1889
01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:32,910
project.org that's where you can find

1890
01:27:36,590 --> 01:27:35,250
some diagrams kind of showing what we

1891
01:27:38,090 --> 01:27:36,600
mean by when we say a pursuance it's

1892
01:27:41,180 --> 01:27:38,100
obviously something that's it's hard to

1893
01:27:42,410 --> 01:27:41,190
explain just verbally but you can see

1894
01:27:44,240 --> 01:27:42,420
what we're doing you can see what kind

1895
01:27:46,340 --> 01:27:44,250
of uses it can be put to you can see

1896
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:46,350
examples of what certain organizations

1897
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:47,610
like frontline wellness which is a

1898
01:27:51,830 --> 01:27:50,010
nonprofit that goes and provides medical

1899
01:27:53,780 --> 01:27:51,840
training in conflict resolution in

1900
01:27:55,100 --> 01:27:53,790
conflict zones around the world you can

1901
01:27:56,630 --> 01:27:55,110
see examples and kind of get a better

1902
01:27:58,100 --> 01:27:56,640
idea of what the possibilities are here

1903
01:28:00,800 --> 01:27:58,110
but basically anything you can envision

1904
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:00,810
as someone who supports the free society

1905
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:02,010
if you just agree to these basic

1906
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:03,690
principles anything you envision

1907
01:28:06,710 --> 01:28:05,610
anything you want to work on the odds

1908
01:28:08,510 --> 01:28:06,720
are that there's gonna be someone

1909
01:28:11,960 --> 01:28:08,520
working on slang similar so you can join

1910
01:28:13,730 --> 01:28:11,970
their pursuance or start your own it's

1911
01:28:17,060 --> 01:28:13,740
it's something that's very very

1912
01:28:18,380 --> 01:28:17,070
Universal very scalable you know

1913
01:28:20,090 --> 01:28:18,390
ultimately this is not a Content neutral

1914
01:28:24,320 --> 01:28:20,100
system we're not trying to empower cops

1915
01:28:27,110 --> 01:28:24,330
or Nazis but we are you know any anyone

1916
01:28:28,850 --> 01:28:27,120
who agrees on these basic precepts that

1917
01:28:31,490 --> 01:28:28,860
we list is welcome

1918
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:31,500
now you've been envisioning this this

1919
01:28:35,150 --> 01:28:32,970
isn't something that just happened

1920
01:28:38,060 --> 01:28:35,160
overnight either you've been looking at

1921
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:38,070
the structure and in applying this for

1922
01:28:44,420 --> 01:28:41,610
how long the first the first iteration

1923
01:28:46,370 --> 01:28:44,430
of pursuance was what I set up project

1924
01:28:48,950 --> 01:28:46,380
p.m. to do in 2009 we had some main

1925
01:28:50,630 --> 01:28:48,960
recruiting people using my columns I had

1926
01:28:52,280 --> 01:28:50,640
enough composed and skeptical inquirer

1927
01:28:53,860 --> 01:28:52,290
in different places saying look I'm

1928
01:28:56,450 --> 01:28:53,870
gonna build this thing and if you're in

1929
01:28:57,650 --> 01:28:56,460
let me know my editors were horrified by

1930
01:28:59,960 --> 01:28:57,660
this because you know it seems very

1931
01:29:02,360 --> 01:28:59,970
silly to them this guy's calling for

1932
01:29:04,670 --> 01:29:02,370
this big Civic Platform cyberpunk thing

1933
01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:04,680
that whatever but I did it anyway and so

1934
01:29:08,600 --> 01:29:05,850
we got a number of people who were all

1935
01:29:09,740 --> 01:29:08,610
very sort of early adapter types oddly

1936
01:29:11,960 --> 01:29:09,750
enough my second-in-command at that

1937
01:29:15,110 --> 01:29:11,970
point was my former IRS lawyer so it was

1938
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:15,120
a mainstream group then I got involved

1939
01:29:18,530 --> 01:29:17,010
with anonymous and because the Tunisian

1940
01:29:20,360 --> 01:29:18,540
thing was happening and then things the

1941
01:29:21,950 --> 01:29:20,370
one thing that led to another and that

1942
01:29:23,810 --> 01:29:21,960
all fell by the wayside but in the

1943
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:23,820
meantime obviously I I had the

1944
01:29:28,520 --> 01:29:25,290
opportunity to learn quite a bit about

1945
01:29:30,410 --> 01:29:28,530
both the broad lessons of online

1946
01:29:32,120 --> 01:29:30,420
organization and human organization in

1947
01:29:34,640 --> 01:29:32,130
general and the little mundane

1948
01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:34,650
things that you know you really kind of

1949
01:29:39,439 --> 01:29:36,810
pick up after a while and apply all

1950
01:29:41,209 --> 01:29:39,449
these things into this system so the

1951
01:29:43,910 --> 01:29:41,219
system we have now the way this works

1952
01:29:45,050 --> 01:29:43,920
now is far more refined than what we

1953
01:29:49,129 --> 01:29:45,060
were originally putting together but

1954
01:29:51,290 --> 01:29:49,139
even that was a it was useful enough to

1955
01:29:52,669 --> 01:29:51,300
those who saw it that we had no problem

1956
01:29:54,350 --> 01:29:52,679
recruiting for it and this this is

1957
01:29:56,090 --> 01:29:54,360
obviously vastly better which is why we

1958
01:29:59,120 --> 01:29:56,100
have a board of directors with some

1959
01:30:01,399 --> 01:29:59,130
pretty high caliber figures like

1960
01:30:02,899 --> 01:30:01,409
Birgitta jónsdóttir member of parliament

1961
01:30:05,959 --> 01:30:02,909
from iceland who was only involved with

1962
01:30:07,550 --> 01:30:05,969
WikiLeaks John Kiriakou who blew the

1963
01:30:09,620 --> 01:30:07,560
whistle on CIA torture and also went to

1964
01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:09,630
prison a number of college professors

1965
01:30:14,330 --> 01:30:11,850
journalists that sort of thing

1966
01:30:15,740 --> 01:30:14,340
we have we have we don't just have an

1967
01:30:17,450 --> 01:30:15,750
idea that I'm going to sit here and say

1968
01:30:19,850 --> 01:30:17,460
oh if everyone did this you know it'd be

1969
01:30:21,890 --> 01:30:19,860
great we have the means to get people in

1970
01:30:22,879 --> 01:30:21,900
and use it and that's that's the

1971
01:30:24,260 --> 01:30:22,889
important part that I always want to

1972
01:30:25,459 --> 01:30:24,270
make clear because you know there are

1973
01:30:26,959 --> 01:30:25,469
great ideas out there there's things

1974
01:30:28,970 --> 01:30:26,969
like liquid democracy there's all kinds

1975
01:30:31,910 --> 01:30:28,980
of software platforms for organizing the

1976
01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:31,920
problem is because of just the goofiness

1977
01:30:37,580 --> 01:30:35,370
of how we prioritize what we're going to

1978
01:30:41,090 --> 01:30:37,590
do they don't get a lot of media pick up

1979
01:30:43,189 --> 01:30:41,100
so we do have this opportunity to ensure

1980
01:30:44,629 --> 01:30:43,199
that you know beyond the 1,900 people in

1981
01:30:47,149 --> 01:30:44,639
organizations that have signed up thus

1982
01:30:49,370 --> 01:30:47,159
far that over the coming couple years we

1983
01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:49,380
bring in 30 40 thousand high calibre

1984
01:30:52,970 --> 01:30:50,690
people with different skills different

1985
01:30:54,890 --> 01:30:52,980
backgrounds different means of acquiring

1986
01:30:58,000 --> 01:30:54,900
information and let them work out

1987
01:31:01,040 --> 01:30:58,010
exactly what they're going to do it does

1988
01:31:02,780 --> 01:31:01,050
does this kind of thing that you have

1989
01:31:05,300 --> 01:31:02,790
gone through I don't want to be loose

1990
01:31:08,209 --> 01:31:05,310
with what I'm trying to say here but I'm

1991
01:31:10,550 --> 01:31:08,219
talking about the big picture do you

1992
01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:10,560
feel like it's restricted your

1993
01:31:16,310 --> 01:31:12,570
opportunities out there for journalism

1994
01:31:19,490 --> 01:31:16,320
now have those calls stopped or is the

1995
01:31:21,169 --> 01:31:19,500
phone off the hook well it's both they

1996
01:31:22,100 --> 01:31:21,179
have the DOJ has made it very difficult

1997
01:31:25,250 --> 01:31:22,110
for me

1998
01:31:30,260 --> 01:31:25,260
they reached me last year when I was

1999
01:31:31,820 --> 01:31:30,270
still on halfway house basically I

2000
01:31:34,129 --> 01:31:31,830
figure out the term for it wasn't on

2001
01:31:35,689 --> 01:31:34,139
probation you get had Miria rested

2002
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:35,699
because I gave an interview to Vice and

2003
01:31:39,080 --> 01:31:37,650
another one to PBS and they claimed that

2004
01:31:41,540 --> 01:31:39,090
I wasn't allowed to give interviews I

2005
01:31:42,830 --> 01:31:41,550
happen to know for a fact since I given

2006
01:31:44,570 --> 01:31:42,840
them from prison for instance over the

2007
01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:44,580
phone's a number of times and was

2008
01:31:48,130 --> 01:31:46,010
familiar with the actual guy

2009
01:31:49,510 --> 01:31:48,140
book on that for inmates but I was

2010
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:49,520
allowed to and I told them no I'm not

2011
01:31:53,110 --> 01:31:50,810
going to get your permission to give

2012
01:31:54,910 --> 01:31:53,120
interviews and they reread me publisher

2013
01:31:57,400 --> 01:31:54,920
down here you're paid $11,000 to a law

2014
01:31:59,410 --> 01:31:57,410
firm to threatened him let's take it to

2015
01:32:01,420 --> 01:31:59,420
court and they let me out immediately

2016
01:32:03,190 --> 01:32:01,430
then they subpoenaed the intercept which

2017
01:32:05,860 --> 01:32:03,200
I used to write for they subpoenaed my

2018
01:32:07,330 --> 01:32:05,870
publishers and my agents for the book

2019
01:32:10,570 --> 01:32:07,340
that I've got that of course has a lot

2020
01:32:12,490 --> 01:32:10,580
of embarrassing DOJ material beyond

2021
01:32:13,960 --> 01:32:12,500
what's already available and they

2022
01:32:15,400 --> 01:32:13,970
subpoena subpoenaed them for all my

2023
01:32:17,830 --> 01:32:15,410
communications between them the editors

2024
01:32:19,720 --> 01:32:17,840
and also demanded that they not pay me

2025
01:32:21,430 --> 01:32:19,730
in my book advance until further notice

2026
01:32:23,650 --> 01:32:21,440
and that further notice turned out to be

2027
01:32:27,970 --> 01:32:23,660
quite further indeed so just yesterday

2028
01:32:29,290 --> 01:32:27,980
after a year I got my net my my income

2029
01:32:31,300 --> 01:32:29,300
the income I've been waiting for for a

2030
01:32:33,010 --> 01:32:31,310
year so they've definitely done what

2031
01:32:35,440 --> 01:32:33,020
they can to stymie this operation

2032
01:32:37,330 --> 01:32:35,450
quickly pursuance they they know that I

2033
01:32:40,080 --> 01:32:37,340
was planning and had already started

2034
01:32:42,310 --> 01:32:40,090
sort of self funding it from the get-go

2035
01:32:43,690 --> 01:32:42,320
and so they could have prevented me from

2036
01:32:46,480 --> 01:32:43,700
being able to do that luckily we have

2037
01:32:48,010 --> 01:32:46,490
volunteers that care enough about this

2038
01:32:50,110 --> 01:32:48,020
that they have done this stuff with no

2039
01:32:51,700 --> 01:32:50,120
money in some cases even put in their

2040
01:32:55,900 --> 01:32:51,710
own to go to conferences and I kind of

2041
01:32:57,340 --> 01:32:55,910
think so on the other hand obviously if

2042
01:32:58,900 --> 01:32:57,350
you want to Google my name

2043
01:33:00,850 --> 01:32:58,910
they're gonna see a great deal of

2044
01:33:03,670 --> 01:33:00,860
material about the things that I that I

2045
01:33:07,570 --> 01:33:03,680
call it correctly they're gonna see you

2046
01:33:09,100 --> 01:33:07,580
know that I have certain unusual

2047
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:09,110
qualities for a journalist one of which

2048
01:33:13,210 --> 01:33:11,690
is that I that I don't just want to be a

2049
01:33:14,230 --> 01:33:13,220
journalist I don't want I don't want to

2050
01:33:17,830 --> 01:33:14,240
just have readers I want to have

2051
01:33:19,870 --> 01:33:17,840
constituents and that obviously makes it

2052
01:33:21,400 --> 01:33:19,880
easier it makes me more credible having

2053
01:33:22,660 --> 01:33:21,410
the the awards and all that that I

2054
01:33:25,360 --> 01:33:22,670
wouldn't have gotten if I wasn't I

2055
01:33:28,540 --> 01:33:25,370
hadn't gone to prison that helps me with

2056
01:33:30,280 --> 01:33:28,550
mainstream people and and it's kept my

2057
01:33:32,470 --> 01:33:30,290
credibility up among those you know the

2058
01:33:33,940 --> 01:33:32,480
less mainstream and that's that's been

2059
01:33:36,570 --> 01:33:33,950
very important to doing this to putting

2060
01:33:38,980 --> 01:33:36,580
this together a very big part of this is

2061
01:33:41,170 --> 01:33:38,990
getting people's attention in the first

2062
01:33:44,650 --> 01:33:41,180
place another big part of it it's being

2063
01:33:47,050 --> 01:33:44,660
able to get prominent figures to come

2064
01:33:48,580 --> 01:33:47,060
out and endorse it and to work on it and

2065
01:33:49,600 --> 01:33:48,590
serve on a board of directors and those

2066
01:33:52,000 --> 01:33:49,610
are things that I just would not have

2067
01:33:53,620 --> 01:33:52,010
been able to do to that extent had the

2068
01:33:56,950 --> 01:33:53,630
DOJ not come after me in the way they

2069
01:33:59,770 --> 01:33:56,960
did well you ready to take some phone

2070
01:34:03,700 --> 01:33:59,780
calls after this break absolutely

2071
01:34:06,029 --> 01:34:03,710
do it let me fire this up our guest

2072
01:34:09,069 --> 01:34:06,039
tonight on this wonderful Fator night

2073
01:34:10,569 --> 01:34:09,079
Barrett Brown is here alright I'm going

2074
01:34:13,720 --> 01:34:10,579
to open up the phone lines after this

2075
01:34:17,529 --> 01:34:13,730
short break three two three eight to

2076
01:34:19,839 --> 01:34:17,539
five five zero four or five it is fate

2077
01:34:22,330 --> 01:34:19,849
or night it's open lines bear Brown is

2078
01:34:24,720 --> 01:34:22,340
here on meros Jimmy Church stay with us

2079
01:34:35,189 --> 01:34:24,730
we'll be right back

2080
01:34:42,430 --> 01:34:38,399
way out here we listen to Jimmy Church

2081
01:34:44,709 --> 01:34:42,440
you're listening to fade to black always

2082
01:34:47,560 --> 01:34:44,719
on the edge of the hottest alternative

2083
01:35:06,820 --> 01:34:47,570
talk jimmy church with fade to black

2084
01:35:10,540 --> 01:35:06,830
stay gra radio.com hurricanes

2085
01:35:12,280 --> 01:35:10,550
earthquakes wildfires this year we've

2086
01:35:14,680 --> 01:35:12,290
experienced more than our fair share

2087
01:35:17,560 --> 01:35:14,690
this is Jimmy Church of fade to black

2088
01:35:19,780 --> 01:35:17,570
and last month I decided to make sure my

2089
01:35:22,060 --> 01:35:19,790
family does not have to worry about food

2090
01:35:25,660 --> 01:35:22,070
should we get caught in a real emergency

2091
01:35:27,550 --> 01:35:25,670
situation introducing Humana a healthy

2092
01:35:29,380 --> 01:35:27,560
storable product that tastes so good

2093
01:35:31,180 --> 01:35:29,390
that you'll want to eat it every day

2094
01:35:34,149 --> 01:35:31,190
instead of just during those times of

2095
01:35:37,300 --> 01:35:34,159
duress on Lumina products have a 25 year

2096
01:35:39,729 --> 01:35:37,310
shelf life our msg and GMO free no

2097
01:35:41,860 --> 01:35:39,739
preservatives and are made in America

2098
01:35:43,930 --> 01:35:41,870
with the new manna pack in your home

2099
01:35:46,450 --> 01:35:43,940
you'll be able to sleep at night knowing

2100
01:35:49,630 --> 01:35:46,460
that you protected your family not only

2101
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:49,640
have I tasted and tested I own it now

2102
01:35:54,340 --> 01:35:52,010
you can too just click on the new manna

2103
01:35:56,380 --> 01:35:54,350
banner on Jimmy Church radio.com and use

2104
01:35:58,780 --> 01:35:56,390
the promo code Jimmy when you order in

2105
01:36:00,780 --> 01:35:58,790
addition to a discount we'll send you an

2106
01:36:04,780 --> 01:36:00,790
autograph fade to black t-shirt

2107
01:36:06,310 --> 01:36:04,790
seriously gobekli tepe do you worry a

2108
01:36:08,700 --> 01:36:06,320
lot whether you're a college student

2109
01:36:11,169 --> 01:36:08,710
busy professional parent or grandparent

2110
01:36:13,030 --> 01:36:11,179
ongoing stress and elevated levels of

2111
01:36:15,340 --> 01:36:13,040
the stress hormone cortisol can wrap

2112
01:36:17,560 --> 01:36:15,350
your memory your health and your future

2113
01:36:19,570 --> 01:36:17,570
now you can combat the effects of stress

2114
01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:19,580
and anxiety while improving your memory

2115
01:36:23,620 --> 01:36:21,530
and recall at the same time with the

2116
01:36:25,390 --> 01:36:23,630
dietary supplement calm and clever

2117
01:36:27,520 --> 01:36:25,400
studies showed that the ingredients in

2118
01:36:29,709 --> 01:36:27,530
common clever reduce cortisol by as much

2119
01:36:31,660 --> 01:36:29,719
as 30 percent in one to two weeks

2120
01:36:34,629 --> 01:36:31,670
call 1-800 seven five eight eight seven

2121
01:36:37,120 --> 01:36:34,639
four six or calm and clever calm

2122
01:36:45,909 --> 01:36:37,130
you listen to us and we listen to you

2123
01:36:47,649 --> 01:36:45,919
and so does the CIA de GRA radio.com hi

2124
01:36:48,370 --> 01:36:47,659
folks what can I say without making

2125
01:36:49,899 --> 01:36:48,380
claims

2126
01:36:51,609 --> 01:36:49,909
seaweedy is truly the buzzword for

2127
01:36:53,560 --> 01:36:51,619
health what does it do government

2128
01:36:55,509 --> 01:36:53,570
institutions will not allow me to say

2129
01:36:58,389 --> 01:36:55,519
what this wonderful oil does for us but

2130
01:37:01,060 --> 01:36:58,399
I can say it's non-gmo and organic I can

2131
01:37:03,009 --> 01:37:01,070
say it's point zero zero three THC which

2132
01:37:05,290 --> 01:37:03,019
in plain English means you won't get

2133
01:37:07,330 --> 01:37:05,300
high there are those that want to squash

2134
01:37:09,129 --> 01:37:07,340
your freedom to buy natural products

2135
01:37:11,169 --> 01:37:09,139
fight back with the purchase power in

2136
01:37:13,299 --> 01:37:11,179
the end it is you that takes care of

2137
01:37:17,919 --> 01:37:13,309
your health go to ancient life oil calm

2138
01:37:19,389 --> 01:37:17,929
one more time ancient life oil calm you

2139
01:37:21,699 --> 01:37:19,399
are listening to fade to black

2140
01:37:26,529 --> 01:37:21,709
with Jimmy Church on the game change in

2141
01:37:28,569 --> 01:37:26,539
network hi I'm Lisa Vance you're

2142
01:37:29,709 --> 01:37:28,579
listening to Jimmy Church this is a

2143
01:37:40,770 --> 01:37:29,719
revolution

2144
01:37:40,780 --> 01:38:17,970
[Music]

2145
01:38:23,010 --> 01:38:20,580
all right welcome back fade to black I'm

2146
01:38:26,160 --> 01:38:23,020
your Jimmy Church its fate or Knights

2147
01:38:30,090 --> 01:38:26,170
it's now open lines three to three a two

2148
01:38:33,690 --> 01:38:30,100
five five zero four five our special

2149
01:38:35,690 --> 01:38:33,700
guest tonight is Barrett Brown and all

2150
01:38:40,640 --> 01:38:35,700
right Barrett you ready to do this

2151
01:38:42,750 --> 01:38:40,650
absolutely Osborn ready let's you know

2152
01:38:46,590 --> 01:38:42,760
everything that we deal with on this

2153
01:38:49,560 --> 01:38:46,600
show which is conspiracy the man the New

2154
01:38:52,530 --> 01:38:49,570
World Order and UFOs and ghosts and

2155
01:38:54,900 --> 01:38:52,540
spirituality and in all parallel worlds

2156
01:38:56,400 --> 01:38:54,910
and time travel you never know what

2157
01:38:58,440 --> 01:38:56,410
these phone calls are gonna be like so

2158
01:39:01,890 --> 01:38:58,450
let's see what we have first hi you're

2159
01:39:06,830 --> 01:39:01,900
live on fade to black who's calling hey

2160
01:39:13,350 --> 01:39:06,840
Jimmy it's uh it's me it's Donny zonie

2161
01:39:16,400 --> 01:39:13,360
yeah okay Zoni how are you I'm good how

2162
01:39:18,720 --> 01:39:16,410
are you I'm doing good say hi to bear it

2163
01:39:21,960 --> 01:39:18,730
how are you Barrett how are you tonight

2164
01:39:23,630 --> 01:39:21,970
I'm fantastic I'm always fantastic what

2165
01:39:28,440 --> 01:39:23,640
did we have for him

2166
01:39:30,690 --> 01:39:28,450
um well I will let all that Barrett

2167
01:39:32,790 --> 01:39:30,700
start um I'm not I'm always good at

2168
01:39:35,970 --> 01:39:32,800
answering questions not really asking

2169
01:39:37,350 --> 01:39:35,980
them good I'm gonna ask you this we have

2170
01:39:38,670 --> 01:39:37,360
a Kickstarter going on for this

2171
01:39:41,610 --> 01:39:38,680
pursuance project we've been talking

2172
01:39:43,680 --> 01:39:41,620
about this is everyone out there who is

2173
01:39:45,530 --> 01:39:43,690
a form of whistleblower who was involved

2174
01:39:47,580 --> 01:39:45,540
in fighting through the free society

2175
01:39:49,740 --> 01:39:47,590
with their skin in the game they all

2176
01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:49,750
agree that this is the best way forward

2177
01:39:52,920 --> 01:39:51,850
so we have three days left how much

2178
01:39:58,500 --> 01:39:52,930
money you're going to put into this

2179
01:40:03,540 --> 01:39:58,510
Kickstarter I don't have any money

2180
01:40:12,690 --> 01:40:03,550
there's a guy I have $5 in my PayPal

2181
01:40:15,690 --> 01:40:12,700
account okay one at a time here I'm

2182
01:40:17,700 --> 01:40:15,700
sorry Barry that's okay what Barrett

2183
01:40:19,440 --> 01:40:17,710
said was we need to get the word out you

2184
01:40:23,370 --> 01:40:19,450
need to let your friends know too as

2185
01:40:26,550 --> 01:40:23,380
well Bank this out and retweet and and

2186
01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:26,560
get it out there for us I shall do that

2187
01:40:29,829 --> 01:40:28,090
right now cuz I'm sitting in front of my

2188
01:40:33,129 --> 01:40:29,839
computer guys

2189
01:40:33,999 --> 01:40:33,139
you tweet that I'll retweet your tweet

2190
01:40:37,679 --> 01:40:34,009
how's that

2191
01:40:41,049 --> 01:40:37,689
I just retweeted your tweet Jimmy about

2192
01:40:43,239 --> 01:40:41,059
Barrett Browns pursuance project and I

2193
01:40:48,519 --> 01:40:43,249
read up on it a bit and I like the idea

2194
01:40:50,739 --> 01:40:48,529
very much I need to read more in depth

2195
01:40:53,529 --> 01:40:50,749
about it but I'm with you guys all the

2196
01:40:56,019 --> 01:40:53,539
way thank you so much Tony and behave

2197
01:40:58,989 --> 01:40:56,029
and be well I'll retweet your retweet

2198
01:41:00,459 --> 01:40:58,999
okay thank you so much guys thank you

2199
01:41:01,779 --> 01:41:00,469
for the time thanks for accepting my

2200
01:41:06,939 --> 01:41:01,789
call yeah thank you

2201
01:41:09,729 --> 01:41:06,949
and you know Barrett there's that it's

2202
01:41:12,999 --> 01:41:09,739
going back to this spirituality side of

2203
01:41:16,509 --> 01:41:13,009
things you had a long time to

2204
01:41:18,849 --> 01:41:16,519
contemplate about you know yourself your

2205
01:41:25,089 --> 01:41:18,859
life the past and what the future could

2206
01:41:27,999 --> 01:41:25,099
be did you did you have any type of you

2207
01:41:35,259 --> 01:41:28,009
know did that did you see the light did

2208
01:41:36,609 --> 01:41:35,269
things take off assalamualaikum I'll

2209
01:41:38,139 --> 01:41:36,619
tell you this I was before I went to

2210
01:41:40,029 --> 01:41:38,149
prison I was very much a horrible little

2211
01:41:42,519 --> 01:41:40,039
anarchist robot and anytime I read a

2212
01:41:43,809 --> 01:41:42,529
book I was thinking to myself is this

2213
01:41:47,499 --> 01:41:43,819
something I can use in an argument

2214
01:41:49,479 --> 01:41:47,509
someday to win and that was a sort of a

2215
01:41:51,609 --> 01:41:49,489
fault you know this was deep in my

2216
01:41:53,739 --> 01:41:51,619
psyche it wasn't until I got to prison

2217
01:41:55,359 --> 01:41:53,749
and was at first facing the prospect of

2218
01:41:57,909 --> 01:41:55,369
20 or 30 years when I was able to sort

2219
01:41:59,999 --> 01:41:57,919
of let myself go and enjoy things like

2220
01:42:03,909 --> 01:42:00,009
poetry

2221
01:42:06,279 --> 01:42:03,919
really yeah and in geometry and and you

2222
01:42:08,099 --> 01:42:06,289
know reading you know just picking up

2223
01:42:10,809 --> 01:42:08,109
knowledge that is not necessarily useful

2224
01:42:12,309 --> 01:42:10,819
that was something that I finally was

2225
01:42:15,249 --> 01:42:12,319
able to do and that's that's very much

2226
01:42:18,029 --> 01:42:15,259
enriched my life and and one other one

2227
01:42:21,099 --> 01:42:18,039
other question did your diet change oh

2228
01:42:23,229 --> 01:42:21,109
by necessity happening on where you are

2229
01:42:25,209 --> 01:42:23,239
yeah the you know but I'll tell ya I

2230
01:42:26,919 --> 01:42:25,219
developed a taste for green green beans

2231
01:42:28,719 --> 01:42:26,929
and rice because that's what they allow

2232
01:42:30,069 --> 01:42:28,729
you to have all you want up they have a

2233
01:42:32,679 --> 01:42:30,079
little tray there so in addition to your

2234
01:42:33,849 --> 01:42:32,689
lot its allotted food right you can have

2235
01:42:36,609 --> 01:42:33,859
all the Sri means and rice and I think

2236
01:42:41,979 --> 01:42:36,619
it's a great a great dinner by its own

2237
01:42:42,709 --> 01:42:41,989
so oh man I don't want to make light of

2238
01:42:46,279 --> 01:42:42,719
this

2239
01:42:47,839 --> 01:42:46,289
but is that part of your diet now yeah

2240
01:42:49,520 --> 01:42:47,849
it is actually yes one of the things I

2241
01:42:52,700 --> 01:42:49,530
picked up another one is freeze-dried

2242
01:42:54,469 --> 01:42:52,710
coffee they've got some very strong very

2243
01:42:56,569 --> 01:42:54,479
robust freeze-dried coffee that they'd

2244
01:42:58,040 --> 01:42:56,579
only sell the prisoners you can't get it

2245
01:43:00,830 --> 01:42:58,050
really out here without going to

2246
01:43:03,080 --> 01:43:00,840
distributor and somewhat someone sent me

2247
01:43:05,629 --> 01:43:03,090
eight or nine bags of that and long ago

2248
01:43:08,899 --> 01:43:05,639
so I've still got that in my diet that

2249
01:43:09,979 --> 01:43:08,909
is that is very interesting let's go

2250
01:43:13,549 --> 01:43:09,989
back to the phones hi you're live on

2251
01:43:15,709 --> 01:43:13,559
fade to black who's calling from Lake of

2252
01:43:19,939 --> 01:43:15,719
the Ozarks hey Doug from Lake of the

2253
01:43:24,799 --> 01:43:19,949
Ozarks say hi to bear brown hey bear

2254
01:43:27,020 --> 01:43:24,809
greetings greetings yes I got so many

2255
01:43:29,060 --> 01:43:27,030
questions but I guess I'll ask probably

2256
01:43:32,299 --> 01:43:29,070
the one that's I consider to be the most

2257
01:43:34,370 --> 01:43:32,309
important and let's say someone is maybe

2258
01:43:36,049 --> 01:43:34,380
setting off some information or they

2259
01:43:38,750 --> 01:43:36,059
know some things and what now what what

2260
01:43:41,149 --> 01:43:38,760
kind of advice or recommendations would

2261
01:43:44,450 --> 01:43:41,159
you give to someone who's maybe wanting

2262
01:43:46,370 --> 01:43:44,460
to expose something or there are

2263
01:43:48,830 --> 01:43:46,380
organizations one of which is the

2264
01:43:51,229 --> 01:43:48,840
freedom of the press foundation that is

2265
01:43:54,229 --> 01:43:51,239
staffed and overseen by some very high

2266
01:43:56,120 --> 01:43:54,239
caliber people who have they oversee I

2267
01:43:57,589 --> 01:43:56,130
believe it's then to oversee this secure

2268
01:44:00,020 --> 01:43:57,599
drop the drop box it was something that

2269
01:44:01,219 --> 01:44:00,030
uh I believe Aaron Schwartz was involved

2270
01:44:03,350 --> 01:44:01,229
in creating under Schwartz of course was

2271
01:44:04,640 --> 01:44:03,360
one of the one of the really visionaries

2272
01:44:07,069 --> 01:44:04,650
of the internet and he ultimately

2273
01:44:09,350 --> 01:44:07,079
committed suicide facing 20 years in

2274
01:44:12,439 --> 01:44:09,360
prison by the DOJ for having made

2275
01:44:14,660 --> 01:44:12,449
available documents from MIT it was

2276
01:44:15,799 --> 01:44:14,670
another thing we it would it would take

2277
01:44:17,330 --> 01:44:15,809
too long to really go into this but

2278
01:44:18,589 --> 01:44:17,340
there are there are organizations like

2279
01:44:22,609 --> 01:44:18,599
the freedom of the press foundation you

2280
01:44:24,410 --> 01:44:22,619
can find online and and and outlets of

2281
01:44:24,979 --> 01:44:24,420
that nature that have experience in

2282
01:44:27,080 --> 01:44:24,989
whistleblowing

2283
01:44:28,700 --> 01:44:27,090
and you should read their guides on

2284
01:44:30,649 --> 01:44:28,710
there before you do anything before you

2285
01:44:34,009 --> 01:44:30,659
send in single a email before you log on

2286
01:44:37,129 --> 01:44:34,019
to a news site that you might plan on

2287
01:44:38,270 --> 01:44:37,139
leaking to we have some examples of what

2288
01:44:39,859 --> 01:44:38,280
not to do

2289
01:44:41,989 --> 01:44:39,869
in some of these cases I don't want to

2290
01:44:45,830 --> 01:44:41,999
go in specifics here but you can you can

2291
01:44:47,450 --> 01:44:45,840
find those you will never regret being

2292
01:44:49,310 --> 01:44:47,460
very cautious and you will never regret

2293
01:44:52,189 --> 01:44:49,320
reading a great deal of material out

2294
01:44:54,020 --> 01:44:52,199
there weighing it and looking into the

2295
01:44:56,510 --> 01:44:54,030
people writing it the fingerprint of the

2296
01:45:00,740 --> 01:44:56,520
press foundation is probably the best

2297
01:45:02,630 --> 01:45:00,750
to start yeah cool anyway I didn't have

2298
01:45:07,820 --> 01:45:02,640
to escape to Russia or anything like

2299
01:45:09,560 --> 01:45:07,830
that so yeah I'd heard it thing I heard

2300
01:45:11,720 --> 01:45:09,570
a thing about you know Snowden had his

2301
01:45:14,480 --> 01:45:11,730
deal and you're well back and dancing

2302
01:45:17,900 --> 01:45:14,490
advice I guess you know for people and

2303
01:45:19,460 --> 01:45:17,910
and and he got no and but unfortunately

2304
01:45:25,400 --> 01:45:19,470
the advice was get out of the country

2305
01:45:27,020 --> 01:45:25,410
you know and well it's good advice yeah

2306
01:45:28,370 --> 01:45:27,030
all right now I appreciate the question

2307
01:45:29,390 --> 01:45:28,380
I know you got other colors so I'll get

2308
01:45:30,650 --> 01:45:29,400
off here leave you guys well but I

2309
01:45:31,820 --> 01:45:30,660
appreciate everything you do at Jimmy

2310
01:45:35,140 --> 01:45:31,830
and the YouTube mr. Barrett

2311
01:45:41,810 --> 01:45:35,150
thank you very much like thank you Dave

2312
01:45:45,350 --> 01:45:41,820
what staying on Dave's thought process

2313
01:45:46,970 --> 01:45:45,360
there if you because I get it every day

2314
01:45:49,670 --> 01:45:46,980
as you can imagine Barrett I get stuff

2315
01:45:51,860 --> 01:45:49,680
coming in my email some stuff I'm afraid

2316
01:45:55,250 --> 01:45:51,870
to even click on I don't want to see it

2317
01:45:57,050 --> 01:45:55,260
with my eyeballs I don't want to have to

2318
01:46:00,850 --> 01:45:57,060
face anything later I'm very cautious

2319
01:46:06,560 --> 01:46:00,860
about it what would you do today if

2320
01:46:10,330 --> 01:46:06,570
something was given to you that you know

2321
01:46:14,360 --> 01:46:10,340
which you maybe not only in jeopardy but

2322
01:46:16,070 --> 01:46:14,370
what would you do with that today very

2323
01:46:18,650 --> 01:46:16,080
similar to the advice I would give him

2324
01:46:20,900 --> 01:46:18,660
or any any other anyone sort of outside

2325
01:46:22,520 --> 01:46:20,910
of the realm of media just the the the

2326
01:46:25,880 --> 01:46:22,530
person out there who might come across

2327
01:46:27,920 --> 01:46:25,890
something I would first you know you set

2328
01:46:30,590 --> 01:46:27,930
aside what I think I know about security

2329
01:46:32,270 --> 01:46:30,600
and immediately read some of these

2330
01:46:33,650 --> 01:46:32,280
guides and had written by groups like

2331
01:46:35,270 --> 01:46:33,660
like the for no depressed foundation

2332
01:46:37,160 --> 01:46:35,280
before I made a single move before I

2333
01:46:38,870 --> 01:46:37,170
made a phone call even on you know wire

2334
01:46:41,620 --> 01:46:38,880
signal or one of these inner cryptid

2335
01:46:43,940 --> 01:46:41,630
deals I would first make sure that I

2336
01:46:46,490 --> 01:46:43,950
have the best chance of having thought

2337
01:46:49,100 --> 01:46:46,500
about all of those things that the FBI

2338
01:46:50,720 --> 01:46:49,110
and NSA have had decades to think about

2339
01:46:53,090 --> 01:46:50,730
in terms of how to catch whistleblowers

2340
01:46:54,800 --> 01:46:53,100
there is software one of the things that

2341
01:46:56,870 --> 01:46:54,810
we came across one one that one of the

2342
01:46:59,300 --> 01:46:56,880
times what I did have an informants that

2343
01:47:00,830 --> 01:46:59,310
worked out real well when I was provided

2344
01:47:02,300 --> 01:47:00,840
information about Raytheon there was a

2345
01:47:04,610 --> 01:47:02,310
project they were working on and they're

2346
01:47:06,440 --> 01:47:04,620
not alone in this software publish to

2347
01:47:08,810 --> 01:47:06,450
detect whistleblowers by looking at

2348
01:47:10,220 --> 01:47:08,820
their online habits that sort of thing

2349
01:47:13,190 --> 01:47:10,230
that kind of thing

2350
01:47:15,080 --> 01:47:13,200
as with so much else there is software

2351
01:47:17,960 --> 01:47:15,090
and technology and methodology that is

2352
01:47:19,729 --> 01:47:17,970
kind of hard to hard for a skeptical

2353
01:47:22,130 --> 01:47:19,739
persons who believe in it first but

2354
01:47:24,740 --> 01:47:22,140
that's usually because if you're not a

2355
01:47:27,140 --> 01:47:24,750
specialist in psychology or or in

2356
01:47:28,580 --> 01:47:27,150
forensics or in the intelligence

2357
01:47:29,900 --> 01:47:28,590
community there's a great deal that's

2358
01:47:34,430 --> 01:47:29,910
just not going to be obvious to you and

2359
01:47:35,990 --> 01:47:34,440
so you know I'll always be aware of you

2360
01:47:37,690 --> 01:47:36,000
know that we we came across some very

2361
01:47:39,920 --> 01:47:37,700
extraordinary and disturbing programs

2362
01:47:42,050 --> 01:47:39,930
during our investigations like persona

2363
01:47:44,240 --> 01:47:42,060
Management which creates fake online

2364
01:47:47,240 --> 01:47:44,250
people and uses them for propaganda and

2365
01:47:49,160 --> 01:47:47,250
to manufacture events there's a lot of

2366
01:47:51,260 --> 01:47:49,170
things that you know objectively you

2367
01:47:53,410 --> 01:47:51,270
know neutrally impressed us with how

2368
01:47:55,610 --> 01:47:53,420
powerful and dangerous they were and

2369
01:47:57,860 --> 01:47:55,620
even putting them out even putting that

2370
01:48:00,260 --> 01:47:57,870
stuff out didn't necessarily get

2371
01:48:01,910 --> 01:48:00,270
everyone's attention and so there are a

2372
01:48:03,950 --> 01:48:01,920
lot of journalists themselves who don't

2373
01:48:07,610 --> 01:48:03,960
necessarily know what to do if they get

2374
01:48:11,240 --> 01:48:07,620
very sensitive information the the

2375
01:48:14,600 --> 01:48:11,250
community the the hacker community when

2376
01:48:18,350 --> 01:48:14,610
I went to the Hope conference in New

2377
01:48:23,090 --> 01:48:18,360
York now bear in mind I went out there

2378
01:48:25,310 --> 01:48:23,100
to I was filming my TV show right and I

2379
01:48:27,979 --> 01:48:25,320
went out there to not only attend the

2380
01:48:32,540 --> 01:48:27,989
hacker conference which we had all of

2381
01:48:35,050 --> 01:48:32,550
the the paperwork and everything to film

2382
01:48:39,410 --> 01:48:35,060
in New York and and clearance through

2383
01:48:42,080 --> 01:48:39,420
hope itself and and that those

2384
01:48:46,460 --> 01:48:42,090
credentials but I was there for Gregg

2385
01:48:50,990 --> 01:48:46,470
Housh and Gabriela Coleman amongst

2386
01:48:53,720 --> 01:48:51,000
others but what I didn't I thought that

2387
01:48:57,320 --> 01:48:53,730
the community would take a look at me

2388
01:49:01,820 --> 01:48:57,330
and go okay cool he's here to tell our

2389
01:49:04,190 --> 01:49:01,830
story it was the exact opposite I there

2390
01:49:07,250 --> 01:49:04,200
was a moment there you can imagine

2391
01:49:10,750 --> 01:49:07,260
Barrett where I brought up your name a

2392
01:49:16,460 --> 01:49:10,760
couple of times to get people's opinion

2393
01:49:19,640 --> 01:49:16,470
and and was poking and I felt like I was

2394
01:49:23,180 --> 01:49:19,650
lucky to be alive they protect

2395
01:49:24,070 --> 01:49:23,190
themselves they protect their own and I

2396
01:49:27,580 --> 01:49:24,080
was there too

2397
01:49:30,190 --> 01:49:27,590
to tell the story they wanted nothing to

2398
01:49:31,930 --> 01:49:30,200
do with me some of these people

2399
01:49:34,210 --> 01:49:31,940
especially the ones that we've had to

2400
01:49:39,880 --> 01:49:34,220
rely on here and there who are hackers

2401
01:49:42,100 --> 01:49:39,890
are not fun to work with and have you

2402
01:49:44,710 --> 01:49:42,110
know sometimes believe that their

2403
01:49:47,020 --> 01:49:44,720
knowledge of networks translates into

2404
01:49:50,830 --> 01:49:47,030
other things that it just doesn't and so

2405
01:49:52,660 --> 01:49:50,840
there is over over cautiousness

2406
01:49:54,040 --> 01:49:52,670
in some respects and under cautiousness

2407
01:49:54,850 --> 01:49:54,050
and others there's also a lot of

2408
01:49:57,220 --> 01:49:54,860
play-acting

2409
01:49:58,500 --> 01:49:57,230
it's very common among activism people

2410
01:50:00,550 --> 01:49:58,510
like to think that they're under more

2411
01:50:02,890 --> 01:50:00,560
scrutiny for the things they're doing

2412
01:50:05,050 --> 01:50:02,900
and then they are and of course we know

2413
01:50:07,360 --> 01:50:05,060
they're under a lot done potentially is

2414
01:50:09,130 --> 01:50:07,370
the extent they do anything but there's

2415
01:50:11,460 --> 01:50:09,140
also a lot of what we might call the the

2416
01:50:13,390 --> 01:50:11,470
activist version of security theater and

2417
01:50:14,980 --> 01:50:13,400
that's and that's one that makes it

2418
01:50:16,270 --> 01:50:14,990
makes it makes it harder to do the

2419
01:50:17,380 --> 01:50:16,280
things they're trying to do because they

2420
01:50:18,370 --> 01:50:17,390
don't really address that and think

2421
01:50:20,140 --> 01:50:18,380
think those things through I'm not

2422
01:50:22,900 --> 01:50:20,150
surprised that you've had a bad

2423
01:50:24,670 --> 01:50:22,910
experience trying to get these some of

2424
01:50:26,410 --> 01:50:24,680
these people to tell useful information

2425
01:50:28,720 --> 01:50:26,420
to others not all of them are in favor

2426
01:50:30,700 --> 01:50:28,730
of that not all of them are transparency

2427
01:50:33,160 --> 01:50:30,710
types some of them are just sort of

2428
01:50:35,500 --> 01:50:33,170
another it's another elite cadre of

2429
01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:35,510
people who were just there to be elite

2430
01:50:43,120 --> 01:50:40,010
well and and eventually I it took me a

2431
01:50:45,610 --> 01:50:43,130
couple of days I broke down some of

2432
01:50:48,550 --> 01:50:45,620
those barriers and I've got some of them

2433
01:50:50,710 --> 01:50:48,560
to open up but I'll tell you I I got on

2434
01:50:53,020 --> 01:50:50,720
one of the elevators and I've got you

2435
01:50:55,330 --> 01:50:53,030
know my producers with me and and a

2436
01:50:59,200 --> 01:50:55,340
director and a sound guy and a couple of

2437
01:51:00,370 --> 01:50:59,210
camp you know I had like 12 people you

2438
01:51:03,280 --> 01:51:00,380
know that were part of my production

2439
01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:03,290
team so it's big and it's obvious as you

2440
01:51:06,640 --> 01:51:04,850
can imagine right we stand out like a

2441
01:51:09,970 --> 01:51:06,650
sore thumb we get out one of the

2442
01:51:13,180 --> 01:51:09,980
elevators we're going up to the top

2443
01:51:17,470 --> 01:51:13,190
floor there and one of the guys on the

2444
01:51:19,840 --> 01:51:17,480
elevator and attendee says to me so who

2445
01:51:22,750 --> 01:51:19,850
are you and I tell him I said I'm here I

2446
01:51:27,430 --> 01:51:22,760
do this this and this and I'm here with

2447
01:51:30,160 --> 01:51:27,440
the History Channel a knee and and he

2448
01:51:33,460 --> 01:51:30,170
looked at me and said you are out of

2449
01:51:36,130 --> 01:51:33,470
your mind do not talk to me don't talk

2450
01:51:37,150 --> 01:51:36,140
to me don't and I said but but and he

2451
01:51:40,150 --> 01:51:37,160
literally

2452
01:51:43,450 --> 01:51:40,160
said do not talk to me and the elevator

2453
01:51:45,580 --> 01:51:43,460
doors open and he took off it was and I

2454
01:51:48,100 --> 01:51:45,590
thought okay here we go this is actually

2455
01:51:49,720 --> 01:51:48,110
what this is going to be like and it was

2456
01:51:53,680 --> 01:51:49,730
it was a rough road man

2457
01:51:58,660 --> 01:51:53,690
we were we were alienated I mean we were

2458
01:52:02,290 --> 01:51:58,670
forced off into a corner and were what's

2459
01:52:04,270 --> 01:52:02,300
the word shunned you know yeah well yeah

2460
01:52:06,520 --> 01:52:04,280
yeah I should I should I should I should

2461
01:52:09,190 --> 01:52:06,530
note that you know my assessment I gave

2462
01:52:11,080 --> 01:52:09,200
you minutes earlier in some cases like

2463
01:52:14,080 --> 01:52:11,090
with documentary film crews that that is

2464
01:52:15,460 --> 01:52:14,090
an attack that the FBI has used they

2465
01:52:16,690 --> 01:52:15,470
used it for instance type Lincoln in the

2466
01:52:19,180 --> 01:52:16,700
Bundy affair

2467
01:52:21,400 --> 01:52:19,190
you know faking of a documentary

2468
01:52:22,900 --> 01:52:21,410
production so it's possible that someone

2469
01:52:24,160 --> 01:52:22,910
said oh this must be another FBI thing

2470
01:52:26,650 --> 01:52:24,170
it's possible they're just they're just

2471
01:52:28,420 --> 01:52:26,660
nuts and rude that's also very very very

2472
01:52:30,250 --> 01:52:28,430
it's a real possibility we have to

2473
01:52:31,810 --> 01:52:30,260
explore but uh you know that there's

2474
01:52:33,190 --> 01:52:31,820
there's there's very good reasons

2475
01:52:34,540 --> 01:52:33,200
sometimes for them to be cautious that

2476
01:52:37,390 --> 01:52:34,550
sometimes there's not so good reasons

2477
01:52:40,090 --> 01:52:37,400
but things like things like hope things

2478
01:52:42,400 --> 01:52:40,100
like DEFCON even the ones who they

2479
01:52:44,710 --> 01:52:42,410
aren't there as intelligence agency

2480
01:52:47,170 --> 01:52:44,720
there to recruit there is a great deal

2481
01:52:48,460 --> 01:52:47,180
of informants in that community special

2482
01:52:50,560 --> 01:52:48,470
especially hackers I've seen estimates

2483
01:52:51,970 --> 01:52:50,570
that I don't think he can really ever

2484
01:52:54,100 --> 01:52:51,980
come to a really useful estimate but

2485
01:52:55,060 --> 01:52:54,110
I've seen estimates that strike me as as

2486
01:52:56,980 --> 01:52:55,070
true

2487
01:52:58,990 --> 01:52:56,990
based on my experience that you know

2488
01:53:01,330 --> 01:52:59,000
some quarter of the people you might

2489
01:53:02,620 --> 01:53:01,340
term hackers criminal hackers are

2490
01:53:05,770 --> 01:53:02,630
associated with the government in some

2491
01:53:07,630 --> 01:53:05,780
secret capacity now that's it matters

2492
01:53:09,370 --> 01:53:07,640
what the definition itself obviously is

2493
01:53:10,570 --> 01:53:09,380
a big factor there but the bottom line

2494
01:53:12,160 --> 01:53:10,580
is that this is a community that's

2495
01:53:13,390 --> 01:53:12,170
fraught through a paranoia and that

2496
01:53:15,910 --> 01:53:13,400
obviously hasn't gotten better in the

2497
01:53:18,250 --> 01:53:15,920
past five or six years yeah you know the

2498
01:53:21,460 --> 01:53:18,260
the famous game right spot the Fed you

2499
01:53:22,060 --> 01:53:21,470
know and getting that t-shirt is a badge

2500
01:53:23,950 --> 01:53:22,070
of honor

2501
01:53:25,600 --> 01:53:23,960
we'll talk about that in just a bit

2502
01:53:27,070 --> 01:53:25,610
let's go back to the phones high your

2503
01:53:30,670 --> 01:53:27,080
life I'm fade to black say hi to bear

2504
01:53:33,250 --> 01:53:30,680
brown who's calling oh this is Casper

2505
01:53:36,940 --> 01:53:33,260
parks first thank you for everything

2506
01:53:39,640 --> 01:53:36,950
you've done I recall back in the day

2507
01:53:42,460 --> 01:53:39,650
when you know the a stressor again

2508
01:53:44,920 --> 01:53:42,470
trapwire popped up which was a mass

2509
01:53:47,440 --> 01:53:44,930
surveillance of cameras and we look now

2510
01:53:50,459 --> 01:53:47,450
what's going on in China with that and

2511
01:53:52,400 --> 01:53:50,469
with what Amazon we saw

2512
01:53:55,070 --> 01:53:52,410
we're in law enforcement is doing and

2513
01:53:58,040 --> 01:53:55,080
Florida so we're risking that come to

2514
01:54:00,840 --> 01:53:58,050
patrician yells come coming out to be um

2515
01:54:02,670 --> 01:54:00,850
as seen if you adding any if you think

2516
01:54:05,160 --> 01:54:02,680
that's gonna get a lot worse now as as

2517
01:54:06,959 --> 01:54:05,170
we go forward certainly a large part

2518
01:54:09,930 --> 01:54:06,969
because but that's with that trapwire

2519
01:54:12,570 --> 01:54:09,940
situation in particular the press was

2520
01:54:14,850 --> 01:54:12,580
not able to assess that in a reasonable

2521
01:54:16,229 --> 01:54:14,860
way as in that came out of the Stratfor

2522
01:54:17,910 --> 01:54:16,239
emails at some point there was a couple

2523
01:54:19,650 --> 01:54:17,920
of articles one of the articles that was

2524
01:54:22,439 --> 01:54:19,660
in the New York Times and they quoted

2525
01:54:24,930 --> 01:54:22,449
two people one was a unnamed homeland

2526
01:54:26,880 --> 01:54:24,940
security staffer who said oh it's not a

2527
01:54:28,590 --> 01:54:26,890
big deal I mean basically said that and

2528
01:54:30,900 --> 01:54:28,600
the other one was a guy with the ACLU

2529
01:54:32,580 --> 01:54:30,910
who I don't think really understood what

2530
01:54:35,490 --> 01:54:32,590
was being asked of him

2531
01:54:37,050 --> 01:54:35,500
and so that tone was said early on and

2532
01:54:39,360 --> 01:54:37,060
you had people like Adrienne chin at

2533
01:54:41,670 --> 01:54:39,370
Gawker back then who's always been kind

2534
01:54:42,870 --> 01:54:41,680
of a goofy fellow you know just saying

2535
01:54:45,240 --> 01:54:42,880
oh this is boring this is nothing which

2536
01:54:46,830 --> 01:54:45,250
he says about everything obviously now

2537
01:54:48,240 --> 01:54:46,840
we know and that was my big problem back

2538
01:54:49,439 --> 01:54:48,250
then with that particular issue this is

2539
01:54:51,930 --> 01:54:49,449
right before I went to prison I was

2540
01:54:53,490 --> 01:54:51,940
talking a lot about how how badly that

2541
01:54:55,620 --> 01:54:53,500
have been bashed because obviously

2542
01:54:56,820 --> 01:54:55,630
facial recognition it's not something

2543
01:54:59,040 --> 01:54:56,830
really exotic it's something we've

2544
01:55:01,050 --> 01:54:59,050
thought about envision for years and

2545
01:55:02,910 --> 01:55:01,060
years yeah and it wasn't something

2546
01:55:04,140 --> 01:55:02,920
interested in me in particular compared

2547
01:55:05,820 --> 01:55:04,150
to some of these other things involving

2548
01:55:07,380 --> 01:55:05,830
propaganda and disinformation that I'm

2549
01:55:09,660 --> 01:55:07,390
much more interested in but it was

2550
01:55:10,620 --> 01:55:09,670
definitely uh it was definitely

2551
01:55:12,870 --> 01:55:10,630
something to look into

2552
01:55:15,060 --> 01:55:12,880
and obviously the you go back and look

2553
01:55:16,860 --> 01:55:15,070
at articles back then sort of mocking

2554
01:55:18,300 --> 01:55:16,870
those who are worried about it well

2555
01:55:22,200 --> 01:55:18,310
that's just one more thing in which I

2556
01:55:23,160 --> 01:55:22,210
think the we were right that that's

2557
01:55:25,350 --> 01:55:23,170
something that was going to come into

2558
01:55:27,090 --> 01:55:25,360
play very soon it's already being used

2559
01:55:28,590 --> 01:55:27,100
in a number of places I mean the tread

2560
01:55:31,170 --> 01:55:28,600
the tripod thing itself is being used in

2561
01:55:35,220 --> 01:55:31,180
the US the company that what that

2562
01:55:37,290 --> 01:55:35,230
essentially oversees that is cubic which

2563
01:55:38,640 --> 01:55:37,300
is a huge firm that even a lot of

2564
01:55:40,950 --> 01:55:38,650
security people haven't heard of a lot

2565
01:55:43,080 --> 01:55:40,960
of security journalists which also

2566
01:55:44,760 --> 01:55:43,090
oversaw like they're always subsidiary

2567
01:55:46,709 --> 01:55:44,770
companies that they hide their

2568
01:55:49,020 --> 01:55:46,719
relationship to oftentimes successfully

2569
01:55:51,570 --> 01:55:49,030
except when when we find the tax filings

2570
01:55:53,130 --> 01:55:51,580
that prove they own them they were the

2571
01:55:54,300 --> 01:55:53,140
ones that won the sitcom contract for

2572
01:55:56,550 --> 01:55:54,310
persona management's which is something

2573
01:55:59,780 --> 01:55:56,560
I alluded to earlier it's the online

2574
01:56:02,910 --> 01:55:59,790
fake people you can read about out there

2575
01:56:03,839 --> 01:56:02,920
there are that's the other big issue

2576
01:56:06,030 --> 01:56:03,849
here and that's

2577
01:56:08,850 --> 01:56:06,040
even when you find these secrets even

2578
01:56:11,220 --> 01:56:08,860
when you are already a journalist and

2579
01:56:13,050 --> 01:56:11,230
are known for investigating these issues

2580
01:56:15,330 --> 01:56:13,060
and have been successful in them it's

2581
01:56:16,770 --> 01:56:15,340
still hard to get editors and producers

2582
01:56:19,560 --> 01:56:16,780
who don't really care we don't

2583
01:56:21,600 --> 01:56:19,570
understand it to see the big picture and

2584
01:56:23,160 --> 01:56:21,610
so getting getting that information is

2585
01:56:25,100 --> 01:56:23,170
half the battle the other half is

2586
01:56:28,350 --> 01:56:25,110
getting the press to do its job

2587
01:56:32,010 --> 01:56:28,360
III want to jump in Casper is still on

2588
01:56:34,640 --> 01:56:32,020
the line and another question okay well

2589
01:56:37,649 --> 01:56:34,650
I wanted to let Barrett know that

2590
01:56:39,780 --> 01:56:37,659
Casper's an author and a great author by

2591
01:56:41,010 --> 01:56:39,790
the way and you should check out some of

2592
01:56:44,189 --> 01:56:41,020
the stuff I'll send you his books

2593
01:56:47,399 --> 01:56:44,199
Barrett but what I wanted I wanted to

2594
01:56:50,910 --> 01:56:47,409
ask a question and have Caspar hear the

2595
01:56:56,220 --> 01:56:50,920
answer Barrett your your writing style

2596
01:57:00,450 --> 01:56:56,230
is something that is for me very fluid

2597
01:57:02,669 --> 01:57:00,460
and is it something that is it your

2598
01:57:03,600 --> 01:57:02,679
brain directly connected to your

2599
01:57:06,330 --> 01:57:03,610
fingertips

2600
01:57:08,220 --> 01:57:06,340
is it very is it fluid I mean is it just

2601
01:57:11,850 --> 01:57:08,230
flow out of you or do you have to work

2602
01:57:13,470 --> 01:57:11,860
at it well I started writing I had some

2603
01:57:15,419 --> 01:57:13,480
internships at newspapers when I was

2604
01:57:17,640 --> 01:57:15,429
fifteen and sixteen in Mexico and Dallas

2605
01:57:20,280 --> 01:57:17,650
and then got some freelance gigs by the

2606
01:57:22,649 --> 01:57:20,290
time that I got to University of Texas

2607
01:57:24,569 --> 01:57:22,659
and I quickly I quit cuz I got a

2608
01:57:25,979 --> 01:57:24,579
grunting job for AOL and so for them

2609
01:57:27,450 --> 01:57:25,989
back in this back in the tooth back in

2610
01:57:29,430 --> 01:57:27,460
2000 when there was all this money to be

2611
01:57:31,169 --> 01:57:29,440
thrown around for online contents and

2612
01:57:32,729 --> 01:57:31,179
then that tried up for a while I was

2613
01:57:34,290 --> 01:57:32,739
writing about women's shoe stores I was

2614
01:57:35,790 --> 01:57:34,300
writing about 30 different tex-mex

2615
01:57:38,069 --> 01:57:35,800
restaurants in Austin and having to

2616
01:57:39,930 --> 01:57:38,079
differentiate each one I was writing

2617
01:57:42,479 --> 01:57:39,940
40,000 words on the band's at South by

2618
01:57:43,020 --> 01:57:42,489
Southwest and I had no idea what they

2619
01:57:46,169 --> 01:57:43,030
sounded like

2620
01:57:49,020 --> 01:57:46,179
and so that was that was worse than

2621
01:57:50,850 --> 01:57:49,030
prison you know and so it's something

2622
01:57:52,140 --> 01:57:50,860
you it's something that you develop you

2623
01:57:54,270 --> 01:57:52,150
know just like with riding a bicycle or

2624
01:57:56,339 --> 01:57:54,280
becoming a ninja or anything or anything

2625
01:57:58,740 --> 01:57:56,349
else it's just something that is now

2626
01:58:01,740 --> 01:57:58,750
ingrained into my neurons I suppose yeah

2627
01:58:05,339 --> 01:58:01,750
because it sounds exactly like you speak

2628
01:58:07,169 --> 01:58:05,349
or - no it reads like you speak it's the

2629
01:58:12,030 --> 01:58:07,179
wrong way to put it Kaspar you had one

2630
01:58:13,680 --> 01:58:12,040
more question right i I know that no

2631
01:58:15,290 --> 01:58:13,690
harm ahead I think was a twin brother

2632
01:58:17,680 --> 01:58:15,300
was in a rock band

2633
01:58:21,220 --> 01:58:17,690
curious how has the band was doing a few

2634
01:58:24,280 --> 01:58:21,230
about that and when Harmon had his or

2635
01:58:26,620 --> 01:58:24,290
had this trial or the question about the

2636
01:58:30,700 --> 01:58:26,630
judges fall says some kind of financial

2637
01:58:33,520 --> 01:58:30,710
time to Stratford and oh yes a new judge

2638
01:58:36,670 --> 01:58:33,530
in that or not I'm noting with the twin

2639
01:58:38,800 --> 01:58:36,680
both thing that there it was pointed out

2640
01:58:40,240 --> 01:58:38,810
in fact Kevin Gallagher who runs who is

2641
01:58:41,709 --> 01:58:40,250
from scratch built this whole free

2642
01:58:43,420 --> 01:58:41,719
Barrett Brown apparatus when after I was

2643
01:58:44,800 --> 01:58:43,430
arrested and managed to raise all this

2644
01:58:47,260 --> 01:58:44,810
money for my legal defense and managed

2645
01:58:50,950 --> 01:58:47,270
to sort of Lobby the press and get them

2646
01:58:53,410 --> 01:58:50,960
to pay attention he he or someone else

2647
01:58:56,590 --> 01:58:53,420
noted and publicized the fact that Judge

2648
01:58:58,870 --> 01:58:56,600
Sam Lindsay's wife was on the board of

2649
01:59:01,510 --> 01:58:58,880
directors of one of these firms I can't

2650
01:59:04,870 --> 01:59:01,520
read which one but there was an arguable

2651
01:59:08,470 --> 01:59:04,880
conflict of interest that I would say

2652
01:59:09,970 --> 01:59:08,480
you know even if that is illicit if that

2653
01:59:11,260 --> 01:59:09,980
is something that rises to the level of

2654
01:59:13,390 --> 01:59:11,270
he should recuse himself which I don't

2655
01:59:14,560 --> 01:59:13,400
really have a strong opinion on it paled

2656
01:59:15,760 --> 01:59:14,570
in comparison to other things that

2657
01:59:17,140 --> 01:59:15,770
happened or in that case I mean the

2658
01:59:18,250 --> 01:59:17,150
Declaration of Independence was seized

2659
01:59:20,080 --> 01:59:18,260
from my apartment

2660
01:59:22,660 --> 01:59:20,090
as evidence of a crime I made sure to

2661
01:59:23,950 --> 01:59:22,670
note that in my sentencing hearing you

2662
01:59:25,750 --> 01:59:23,960
know so he eventually ordered you gotta

2663
01:59:27,910 --> 01:59:25,760
give it back I mean the whole thing was

2664
01:59:29,020 --> 01:59:27,920
just so vastly problematic that I really

2665
01:59:31,150 --> 01:59:29,030
haven't even thought that much about

2666
01:59:33,400 --> 01:59:31,160
that conflict of interest his big

2667
01:59:35,110 --> 01:59:33,410
problem was that he believes FBI agents

2668
01:59:38,500 --> 01:59:35,120
when they go on the stand and no one

2669
01:59:40,840 --> 01:59:38,510
else does so Casper thank you so much

2670
01:59:44,470 --> 01:59:40,850
man when's the when's your next book

2671
01:59:46,780 --> 01:59:44,480
coming out oh god I'm hoping sometime

2672
01:59:49,630 --> 01:59:46,790
after the first of the year yeah okay

2673
01:59:50,500 --> 01:59:49,640
well I'm shooting for that's a you and

2674
01:59:52,330 --> 01:59:50,510
Barrett together

2675
01:59:53,500 --> 01:59:52,340
there you go all right I'll talk to you

2676
01:59:55,540 --> 01:59:53,510
soon I was ready to pray answer my

2677
01:59:57,640 --> 01:59:55,550
questions about Dickie Casper's thank

2678
02:00:00,939 --> 01:59:57,650
you Thank You Casper have a great night

2679
02:00:04,000 --> 02:00:00,949
and I wanted to go back I've got like

2680
02:00:08,920 --> 02:00:04,010
two minutes but he brought up Aaron

2681
02:00:14,040 --> 02:00:08,930
Schwartz and again just just a tragic

2682
02:00:18,040 --> 02:00:14,050
story beyond words but most people today

2683
02:00:19,870 --> 02:00:18,050
because of the timing of everything and

2684
02:00:22,300 --> 02:00:19,880
how it went down they don't know the

2685
02:00:25,840 --> 02:00:22,310
Aaron Schwartz story or his impact on

2686
02:00:28,810 --> 02:00:25,850
the internet and his talent his talent

2687
02:00:31,240 --> 02:00:28,820
was beyond measure and when you think

2688
02:00:36,010 --> 02:00:31,250
about RSS and the other things

2689
02:00:38,920 --> 02:00:36,020
he was not only fundamental in but they

2690
02:00:42,940 --> 02:00:38,930
they killed him you know and they

2691
02:00:45,400 --> 02:00:42,950
literally ruined a 26 year old young man

2692
02:00:47,260 --> 02:00:45,410
that was one of the most talented period

2693
02:00:50,230 --> 02:00:47,270
and responsible for what we are doing

2694
02:00:53,920 --> 02:00:50,240
today on the Internet Aaron Swartz his

2695
02:00:55,750 --> 02:00:53,930
vision now was expensive and you know I

2696
02:00:57,430 --> 02:00:55,760
spoke to Aaron Schwartz day last year

2697
02:00:59,560 --> 02:00:57,440
that's actually where we unveiled part

2698
02:01:00,940 --> 02:00:59,570
of the pursuance project and we'll be

2699
02:01:02,200 --> 02:01:00,950
speaking again next year and they've

2700
02:01:03,970 --> 02:01:02,210
actually been very heavily involved in

2701
02:01:09,070 --> 02:01:03,980
this Kickstarter we have going on that

2702
02:01:11,380 --> 02:01:09,080
ends in three days by the way we're

2703
02:01:12,970 --> 02:01:11,390
trying to finish something that should

2704
02:01:16,300 --> 02:01:12,980
have happened already by building this

2705
02:01:17,860 --> 02:01:16,310
network he had he had various you know

2706
02:01:19,510 --> 02:01:17,870
he was a specialist he was a technology

2707
02:01:21,550 --> 02:01:19,520
specialist and so some of his stuff is

2708
02:01:23,020 --> 02:01:21,560
beyond my purview but in the broad in

2709
02:01:26,440 --> 02:01:23,030
the main and I met him a couple times

2710
02:01:28,330 --> 02:01:26,450
online when he was going to do some FOI

2711
02:01:30,640 --> 02:01:28,340
requests on that persona management

2712
02:01:31,810 --> 02:01:30,650
apparatus we were looking into and just

2713
02:01:33,100 --> 02:01:31,820
didn't really know much about him back

2714
02:01:35,320 --> 02:01:33,110
then it wasn't until he killed himself

2715
02:01:37,660 --> 02:01:35,330
and I was already in prison that I

2716
02:01:39,400 --> 02:01:37,670
learned who it was I've been talking to

2717
02:01:42,420 --> 02:01:39,410
and what this guy was capable of and

2718
02:01:48,070 --> 02:01:42,430
what we kind of lost thanks to the DOJ

2719
02:01:50,760 --> 02:01:48,080
it's an unbelievable story and ok we're

2720
02:01:53,530 --> 02:01:50,770
gonna take a break right here I mean I

2721
02:01:57,640 --> 02:01:53,540
when it comes is this is the this is

2722
02:02:00,640 --> 02:01:57,650
what really disturbs me bear it when you

2723
02:02:04,180 --> 02:02:00,650
look at all of these individuals you

2724
02:02:09,070 --> 02:02:04,190
being one of course but how these lives

2725
02:02:11,350 --> 02:02:09,080
were were affected and and in some cases

2726
02:02:13,510 --> 02:02:11,360
tragically like Aaron who ended up

2727
02:02:16,000 --> 02:02:13,520
committing suicide because of these

2728
02:02:18,940 --> 02:02:16,010
threats of you know a million years in

2729
02:02:20,890 --> 02:02:18,950
in jail and millions of dollars in fines

2730
02:02:25,600 --> 02:02:20,900
and your parents and your reputation and

2731
02:02:27,370 --> 02:02:25,610
your family all over the internet and

2732
02:02:29,770 --> 02:02:27,380
and about the internet and about

2733
02:02:33,220 --> 02:02:29,780
decentralization and about being an

2734
02:02:35,740 --> 02:02:33,230
activist and that I think is is one of

2735
02:02:39,730 --> 02:02:35,750
the most saddest parts about all of this

2736
02:02:43,690 --> 02:02:39,740
for me personally it's important to us

2737
02:02:45,270 --> 02:02:43,700
that a portion of his vision be realized

2738
02:02:46,830 --> 02:02:45,280
in this project and that's

2739
02:02:50,189 --> 02:02:46,840
you know with a lot of his associates

2740
02:02:51,510 --> 02:02:50,199
are involved here it's important to a

2741
02:02:53,010 --> 02:02:51,520
lot of people obviously the more when

2742
02:02:54,450 --> 02:02:53,020
you there's some documentaries now about

2743
02:02:56,399 --> 02:02:54,460
him so he'd so hopefully he's gotten

2744
02:02:57,750 --> 02:02:56,409
some wider recognition not just for

2745
02:03:00,660 --> 02:02:57,760
having been someone who was unfairly

2746
02:03:04,040 --> 02:03:00,670
targeted but is someone who in being

2747
02:03:07,020 --> 02:03:04,050
unfairly targeted the the world lost out

2748
02:03:10,169 --> 02:03:07,030
by that and that's something that I

2749
02:03:14,609 --> 02:03:10,179
think over time he's going to be

2750
02:03:18,299 --> 02:03:14,619
remembered as a very pressured fellow

2751
02:03:20,540 --> 02:03:18,309
who you know had great potentials at the

2752
02:03:24,779 --> 02:03:20,550
state as it as it has throughout history

2753
02:03:27,870 --> 02:03:24,789
crushed yeah and every time you see RSS

2754
02:03:31,770 --> 02:03:27,880
feed click here that's Aaron Schwartz

2755
02:03:34,709 --> 02:03:31,780
you know and he was a kid when he wrote

2756
02:03:37,140 --> 02:03:34,719
that and had that vision a kid a kid a

2757
02:03:38,399 --> 02:03:37,150
teenager absolutely incredible let's

2758
02:03:40,680 --> 02:03:38,409
take a break right here our guest

2759
02:03:43,319 --> 02:03:40,690
tonight Barrett Brown he's here helping

2760
02:03:45,419 --> 02:03:43,329
me take phone calls on this very special

2761
02:03:46,799 --> 02:03:45,429
Fator night and will continue with your

2762
02:03:50,910 --> 02:03:46,809
phone calls right after this short break

2763
02:03:52,740 --> 02:03:50,920
3 2 3 8 2 5 5 0 4 5 I'm yours to be

2764
02:03:54,720 --> 02:03:52,750
Church more with Barrett and your calls

2765
02:03:57,080 --> 02:03:54,730
next stay with me

2766
02:03:59,310 --> 02:03:57,090
[Music]

2767
02:04:04,180 --> 02:03:59,320
everybody's Rob Halford the mental guard

2768
02:04:10,819 --> 02:04:07,459
this is kg are a digital broadcasting

2769
02:04:14,629 --> 02:04:10,829
station Salt Lake City Utah Van Buren

2770
02:04:17,239 --> 02:04:14,639
Arkansas okay nurse let's get this man

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to the ER stat right away doctor we see

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this every day heart attack or angina

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pain due to blocked and clogged arteries

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chelation can remove obstructions or

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blockages from arteries and help avoid

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painful and expensive surgery

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now there's angiogram it's a liquid oral

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angio primm increases blood flow all

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over the body and that means more energy

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2783
02:04:45,799 --> 02:04:43,860
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02:04:48,979 --> 02:04:45,809
research has gone into chelation and

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angiogram is the result a safe and easy

2786
02:04:53,419 --> 02:04:51,269
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2787
02:04:55,279 --> 02:04:53,429
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2790
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log on now for a special radio offer

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2831
02:06:53,030 --> 02:06:51,060
did you know that when you're on the

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02:06:55,220 --> 02:06:53,040
road with limited data or Wi-Fi

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02:06:56,510 --> 02:06:55,230
available you can still listen to every

2834
02:06:58,970 --> 02:06:56,520
minute a fade to black

2835
02:07:02,090 --> 02:06:58,980
by just calling six oh five five six two

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four four eight two no smartphone app or

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Internet needed it saves your data plan

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02:07:14,750 --> 02:07:12,330
two four four eight two you can listen

2841
02:07:26,660 --> 02:07:14,760
to me Jimmy Church on any phone anytime

2842
02:07:33,030 --> 02:07:28,950
you want to know a secret

2843
02:07:36,000 --> 02:07:33,040
I love ponies I really love ponies I'm

2844
02:07:40,530 --> 02:07:36,010
serious I couldn't stay sane without

2845
02:07:45,790 --> 02:07:40,540
poor mr. Brooks I fade to black because

2846
02:07:49,759 --> 02:07:47,629
this is fade to black

2847
02:07:53,450 --> 02:07:49,769
with Jimmy Church on the game changer

2848
02:08:02,540 --> 02:07:53,460
radio network and kgr a the global radio

2849
02:08:02,550 --> 02:08:08,660
[Music]

2850
02:08:14,910 --> 02:08:10,470
all right welcome back

2851
02:08:16,980 --> 02:08:14,920
fade to black Fator night fade to black

2852
02:08:19,110 --> 02:08:16,990
I'm the game changer network and kg RA

2853
02:08:22,500 --> 02:08:19,120
the planet you can follow me on Twitter

2854
02:08:25,050 --> 02:08:22,510
I'm euros Jimmy Church @j Turks radio

2855
02:08:27,680 --> 02:08:25,060
simple and you can also follow Baird

2856
02:08:30,630 --> 02:08:27,690
Brown our guests at Barrett Brown

2857
02:08:32,040 --> 02:08:30,640
underscore and we're taking calls the

2858
02:08:34,980 --> 02:08:32,050
lines are open three two three eight two

2859
02:08:38,370 --> 02:08:34,990
five five zero four or five now bear

2860
02:08:40,830 --> 02:08:38,380
before I get back to the phones I am

2861
02:08:43,740 --> 02:08:40,840
going to after the this next couple of

2862
02:08:47,730 --> 02:08:43,750
phone calls before we get to the end I'm

2863
02:08:51,930 --> 02:08:47,740
going to ask you a couple of UFO

2864
02:08:54,180 --> 02:08:51,940
questions and it's it's about the

2865
02:08:56,460 --> 02:08:54,190
current state of the mass media it's not

2866
02:08:59,130 --> 02:08:56,470
going to be what you expect but don't

2867
02:09:00,840 --> 02:08:59,140
let me forget to get this in okay I

2868
02:09:03,030 --> 02:09:00,850
don't want I don't want it to get away

2869
02:09:04,200 --> 02:09:03,040
from you let's go back to the phones hi

2870
02:09:07,500 --> 02:09:04,210
you're live on fade to black who's

2871
02:09:09,360 --> 02:09:07,510
calling yes good evening Jimmy this is

2872
02:09:13,550 --> 02:09:09,370
Phil Christopher's in the Pacific

2873
02:09:17,190 --> 02:09:13,560
Northwest hi Phil good evening Barrett

2874
02:09:19,860 --> 02:09:17,200
so mr. Brown my question for you is do

2875
02:09:21,360 --> 02:09:19,870
you feel that there is actually still a

2876
02:09:25,860 --> 02:09:21,370
Fourth Estate that's actually

2877
02:09:30,320 --> 02:09:25,870
functioning in this admittedly

2878
02:09:33,030 --> 02:09:30,330
dysfunctional government question

2879
02:09:35,370 --> 02:09:33,040
absolutely to some extent I mean there's

2880
02:09:37,500 --> 02:09:35,380
still things being properly done here

2881
02:09:38,940 --> 02:09:37,510
and there there are good journalists who

2882
02:09:41,190 --> 02:09:38,950
know what they're doing some of them are

2883
02:09:43,440 --> 02:09:41,200
younger some of them have sort of old

2884
02:09:44,790 --> 02:09:43,450
school you know people who've been

2885
02:09:46,410 --> 02:09:44,800
around a while and if I'm developed

2886
02:09:47,940 --> 02:09:46,420
talents for investigative journalism

2887
02:09:52,080 --> 02:09:47,950
I've seen it happen I've worked with

2888
02:09:54,930 --> 02:09:52,090
many of them but on the whole it is not

2889
02:09:57,060 --> 02:09:54,940
up to the task of serving as our central

2890
02:09:59,000 --> 02:09:57,070
nervous system for a complex 21st

2891
02:10:01,140 --> 02:09:59,010
century imperial republic it's just not

2892
02:10:03,270 --> 02:10:01,150
and that should be of concern to anyone

2893
02:10:04,770 --> 02:10:03,280
whether or not you support the imperial

2894
02:10:07,230 --> 02:10:04,780
republic well you know regardless of how

2895
02:10:09,990 --> 02:10:07,240
you think about the u.s. it is not a

2896
02:10:11,940 --> 02:10:10,000
good thing to have a media

2897
02:10:15,110 --> 02:10:11,950
infrastructure that still thinks pretty

2898
02:10:17,670 --> 02:10:15,120
highly of itself despite all things

2899
02:10:19,080 --> 02:10:17,680
because to the extent that they are

2900
02:10:21,240 --> 02:10:19,090
worthwhile

2901
02:10:22,919 --> 02:10:21,250
they are to some extent when they get

2902
02:10:24,330 --> 02:10:22,929
things wrong and don't and don't deal

2903
02:10:26,399 --> 02:10:24,340
with those things and that this is one

2904
02:10:28,140 --> 02:10:26,409
of my main focuses before I got involved

2905
02:10:30,600 --> 02:10:28,150
Anonymous was immediate media criticism

2906
02:10:33,390 --> 02:10:30,610
that was my profession essentially and

2907
02:10:35,550 --> 02:10:33,400
it's still kind of is there is there is

2908
02:10:36,930 --> 02:10:35,560
no negative feedback for the most part

2909
02:10:38,459 --> 02:10:36,940
in the system as then you can be a

2910
02:10:39,300 --> 02:10:38,469
columnist like Thomas Friedman or

2911
02:10:41,970 --> 02:10:39,310
Charles Krauthammer

2912
02:10:43,550 --> 02:10:41,980
and you can if you if you go back and

2913
02:10:46,140 --> 02:10:43,560
read their output in the last 15 years

2914
02:10:48,089 --> 02:10:46,150
20 years even you'll notice that they

2915
02:10:50,430 --> 02:10:48,099
tend to get their predictions absolutely

2916
02:10:52,320 --> 02:10:50,440
wrong and they get away with it because

2917
02:10:54,510 --> 02:10:52,330
first one thing people rarely go back

2918
02:10:56,640 --> 02:10:54,520
and read old columns by these Pulitzer

2919
02:10:57,839 --> 02:10:56,650
Prize winners and second of all the

2920
02:10:59,580 --> 02:10:57,849
people in Washington Post in New York

2921
02:11:01,760 --> 02:10:59,590
Times don't necessarily care these are

2922
02:11:04,080 --> 02:11:01,770
celebrity colonists they have a name

2923
02:11:06,479 --> 02:11:04,090
their output the action whether or not

2924
02:11:08,700 --> 02:11:06,489
it affects us for better or good is

2925
02:11:10,140 --> 02:11:08,710
decide to decide the point to them and

2926
02:11:11,580 --> 02:11:10,150
most of them don't have any idea they

2927
02:11:13,290 --> 02:11:11,590
don't they don't know one way the other

2928
02:11:14,879 --> 02:11:13,300
if these are valuable comic colonists if

2929
02:11:17,729 --> 02:11:14,889
they were wrong about every single war

2930
02:11:20,040 --> 02:11:17,739
in the past 20 years even down in the

2931
02:11:22,850 --> 02:11:20,050
specifics in some cases and are still

2932
02:11:25,200 --> 02:11:22,860
considered by other big mainstream

2933
02:11:26,729 --> 02:11:25,210
colonists as military experts for

2934
02:11:29,189 --> 02:11:26,739
instance so any other industry that

2935
02:11:31,439 --> 02:11:29,199
works like that would fail the media is

2936
02:11:36,149 --> 02:11:31,449
able to kind of fail without it being as

2937
02:11:38,459 --> 02:11:36,159
clear of the extent as it would be if it

2938
02:11:40,200 --> 02:11:38,469
was a mechanic fixing your car that's

2939
02:11:41,430 --> 02:11:40,210
the very much the nature of politics in

2940
02:11:43,229 --> 02:11:41,440
sociology in general is that is that

2941
02:11:45,419 --> 02:11:43,239
those are the places you can be utterly

2942
02:11:47,040 --> 02:11:45,429
wrong utterly unreasonable and still be

2943
02:11:47,939 --> 02:11:47,050
successful and so that's a problem and

2944
02:11:49,609 --> 02:11:47,949
it's one of the things that we're trying

2945
02:11:52,620 --> 02:11:49,619
to fix the pursuance by kind of

2946
02:11:54,270 --> 02:11:52,630
providing this apparatus for crowdsource

2947
02:11:56,040 --> 02:11:54,280
research among other things and trying

2948
02:11:57,810 --> 02:11:56,050
to get more journalists to use this and

2949
02:11:59,669 --> 02:11:57,820
tell them and show them look this works

2950
02:12:00,959 --> 02:11:59,679
having crowdsourcing works under certain

2951
02:12:02,580 --> 02:12:00,969
conditions and we know a little bit

2952
02:12:04,770 --> 02:12:02,590
about it you can find out more

2953
02:12:07,020 --> 02:12:04,780
experimenting with it let's make your

2954
02:12:08,640 --> 02:12:07,030
job easier so that's that's the solution

2955
02:12:10,220 --> 02:12:08,650
I've been looking at for 10 years that's

2956
02:12:12,510 --> 02:12:10,230
that's what pursuance really grew out of

2957
02:12:14,160 --> 02:12:12,520
and it's something we can build upon and

2958
02:12:15,930 --> 02:12:14,170
meanwhile we can build an independent

2959
02:12:18,000 --> 02:12:15,940
press outlets as has been done

2960
02:12:19,260 --> 02:12:18,010
successfully in some cases and expand

2961
02:12:21,149 --> 02:12:19,270
their reach and that's that's happened

2962
02:12:27,890 --> 02:12:21,159
to so that's why I would say it's not

2963
02:12:32,279 --> 02:12:27,900
entirely it's not entirely broken and

2964
02:12:37,289 --> 02:12:34,589
you didn't say it I will so I'll state

2965
02:12:41,250 --> 02:12:37,299
it it's come down to not about being

2966
02:12:43,379 --> 02:12:41,260
right or wrong but it's about clicks yes

2967
02:12:45,059 --> 02:12:43,389
that's that's a huge part of that's what

2968
02:12:47,669 --> 02:12:45,069
people wanting out for the most part you

2969
02:12:49,500 --> 02:12:47,679
know that's that's a a cardinal sin of

2970
02:12:51,199 --> 02:12:49,510
humanity that a great deal of the

2971
02:12:54,779 --> 02:12:51,209
American public has fallen insu of

2972
02:12:57,000 --> 02:12:54,789
tribalism caring less about principles

2973
02:12:58,770 --> 02:12:57,010
and more about you know some alleged

2974
02:13:02,429 --> 02:12:58,780
long-term goal that you that you feel

2975
02:13:05,429 --> 02:13:02,439
requires you know hypocrisy

2976
02:13:08,879 --> 02:13:05,439
you know obscurantism the whole what

2977
02:13:12,149 --> 02:13:08,889
Europe was run on obscurantism for a

2978
02:13:15,179 --> 02:13:12,159
long time we call the Dark Ages and you

2979
02:13:17,549 --> 02:13:15,189
know it's it's it is not a game it's the

2980
02:13:18,809 --> 02:13:17,559
trend that most frightens me there's all

2981
02:13:22,079 --> 02:13:18,819
kinds of things that can go wrong that

2982
02:13:24,869 --> 02:13:22,089
we can fix but when the media has has

2983
02:13:26,069 --> 02:13:24,879
severe systemic deficits that are not

2984
02:13:28,289 --> 02:13:26,079
going to be addressed from the inside

2985
02:13:29,729 --> 02:13:28,299
and when the public itself for the most

2986
02:13:34,020 --> 02:13:29,739
part even if there are things I agree

2987
02:13:36,569 --> 02:13:34,030
with them about you know the it's it's

2988
02:13:38,369 --> 02:13:36,579
frightening the extent of it let's go to

2989
02:13:39,899 --> 02:13:38,379
the phones how your life on fade to

2990
02:13:44,099 --> 02:13:39,909
black who's calling say how to bear

2991
02:13:49,259 --> 02:13:44,109
brown bear hi how are you this is a

2992
02:13:50,819 --> 02:13:49,269
Isaac from Anaheim excellent call you

2993
02:13:54,359 --> 02:13:50,829
make so many good points let me tell you

2994
02:13:58,439 --> 02:13:54,369
I was very involved in Hollywood okay I

2995
02:14:02,429 --> 02:13:58,449
can't tell you what I do but ever since

2996
02:14:07,969 --> 02:14:02,439
the day that Trump was elected I was on

2997
02:14:10,679 --> 02:14:07,979
a set somewhere and I knew these people

2998
02:14:12,899 --> 02:14:10,689
we're not acting rationally these people

2999
02:14:15,539 --> 02:14:12,909
were crying there was like like babies

3000
02:14:17,969 --> 02:14:15,549
having tantrums these people in

3001
02:14:22,529 --> 02:14:17,979
Hollywood have been in control for so

3002
02:14:29,549 --> 02:14:22,539
long with their mind-control MKULTRA CIA

3003
02:14:31,529 --> 02:14:29,559
FBI deep state manipulation that that is

3004
02:14:33,839 --> 02:14:31,539
really what bothers them right now and

3005
02:14:36,750 --> 02:14:33,849
it's going to bother them as long as you

3006
02:14:39,569 --> 02:14:36,760
know Trump is in office right now these

3007
02:14:43,500 --> 02:14:39,579
people knew that they've had control of

3008
02:14:45,029 --> 02:14:43,510
culture and now they're starting to lose

3009
02:14:45,720 --> 02:14:45,039
that control because the Internet's

3010
02:14:48,240 --> 02:14:45,730
taking

3011
02:14:50,220 --> 02:14:48,250
I mean they still have Netflix which is

3012
02:14:53,370 --> 02:14:50,230
part of their control paradigm they

3013
02:14:56,310 --> 02:14:53,380
still have China owning AMC Theaters

3014
02:14:59,340 --> 02:14:56,320
they have they basically the zionists

3015
02:15:04,460 --> 02:14:59,350
mixed with the Communists and the Saudi

3016
02:15:06,180 --> 02:15:04,470
wahabis are now the new axis of evil

3017
02:15:09,330 --> 02:15:06,190
unfortunately we're aligned with that

3018
02:15:12,810 --> 02:15:09,340
that's a pretty interesting take and

3019
02:15:18,960 --> 02:15:12,820
thank you for that Isaac do you see him

3020
02:15:21,480 --> 02:15:18,970
well okay I let me say this Trump had a

3021
02:15:25,470 --> 02:15:21,490
reality show for seven or eight years

3022
02:15:26,850 --> 02:15:25,480
and he got another show he is someone

3023
02:15:28,680 --> 02:15:26,860
who associate very closely with the

3024
02:15:30,780 --> 02:15:28,690
person that this caller with the people

3025
02:15:33,480 --> 02:15:30,790
that this call or uh attributes these

3026
02:15:35,580 --> 02:15:33,490
characteristics to so I would find it

3027
02:15:37,020 --> 02:15:35,590
very surprising if it turned out that

3028
02:15:38,700 --> 02:15:37,030
he's going to do the things that a lot

3029
02:15:41,040 --> 02:15:38,710
of the people for instance you follow q

3030
02:15:43,830 --> 02:15:41,050
and on think he's going to do there's

3031
02:15:48,270 --> 02:15:43,840
nothing in his history that that really

3032
02:15:50,460 --> 02:15:48,280
indicates that to anyone who's not just

3033
02:15:52,470 --> 02:15:50,470
looking for a silver clout the silver

3034
02:15:54,330 --> 02:15:52,480
lining this is like this is a guy with a

3035
02:15:56,130 --> 02:15:54,340
long documented history that you don't

3036
02:15:57,420 --> 02:15:56,140
have to depend on any what anyone said

3037
02:16:00,180 --> 02:15:57,430
about him you can go and look at his

3038
02:16:02,340 --> 02:16:00,190
statements and I think it's kind of

3039
02:16:05,180 --> 02:16:02,350
unusual I think it's strange that he's

3040
02:16:07,230 --> 02:16:05,190
been attributed this anti-establishment

3041
02:16:09,420 --> 02:16:07,240
when he is the nicest outfit in the way

3042
02:16:11,100 --> 02:16:09,430
that he does he does has broken down a

3043
02:16:13,920 --> 02:16:11,110
lot of the frou-frou he's broken down a

3044
02:16:15,540 --> 02:16:13,930
lot of the the edifice which is helpful

3045
02:16:17,520 --> 02:16:15,550
to people like me obviously because that

3046
02:16:20,760 --> 02:16:17,530
edifice was really the only thing that

3047
02:16:23,550 --> 02:16:20,770
was convincing vague minded people that

3048
02:16:28,020 --> 02:16:23,560
this system that is is in great shape so

3049
02:16:30,030 --> 02:16:28,030
that's actually good again I the man he

3050
02:16:31,740 --> 02:16:30,040
himself has made pretty clear his

3051
02:16:33,180 --> 02:16:31,750
beliefs about individual rights he's

3052
02:16:35,340 --> 02:16:33,190
done it over and over again and I don't

3053
02:16:39,209 --> 02:16:35,350
see him as the hero who's going to come

3054
02:16:40,590 --> 02:16:39,219
and restore all of the the various

3055
02:16:43,170 --> 02:16:40,600
things that we were supposedly taken

3056
02:16:46,050 --> 02:16:43,180
from by you know the Hollywood people or

3057
02:16:49,530 --> 02:16:46,060
whoever yeah and and I understand the

3058
02:16:51,930 --> 02:16:49,540
call but there's another thing about

3059
02:16:54,060 --> 02:16:51,940
this that of first off I don't do

3060
02:16:56,280 --> 02:16:54,070
politics on the show and one of the

3061
02:16:59,010 --> 02:16:56,290
reasons why I do the conspiracy of

3062
02:16:59,209 --> 02:16:59,020
politics that that's an easy road to go

3063
02:17:01,519 --> 02:16:59,219
to

3064
02:17:04,009 --> 02:17:01,529
but the reason why I don't do politics

3065
02:17:08,599 --> 02:17:04,019
and especially more and more today is

3066
02:17:14,179 --> 02:17:08,609
that it absolutely divides and causes

3067
02:17:15,169 --> 02:17:14,189
anger I have an audience that is very

3068
02:17:18,169 --> 02:17:15,179
diverse

3069
02:17:20,990 --> 02:17:18,179
and I want them to stay together and and

3070
02:17:23,629 --> 02:17:21,000
as soon it today it just doesn't matter

3071
02:17:27,860 --> 02:17:23,639
the media has chosen the lines in the

3072
02:17:31,849 --> 02:17:27,870
sand and they enjoy the divide and

3073
02:17:34,400 --> 02:17:31,859
conquer rule that is that is so

3074
02:17:36,410 --> 02:17:34,410
prevalent and that it disturbs me so

3075
02:17:39,650 --> 02:17:36,420
when we talk about Trump we could say

3076
02:17:43,009 --> 02:17:39,660
the same thing about a Democrat the

3077
02:17:45,440 --> 02:17:43,019
democratically elected president I think

3078
02:17:47,650 --> 02:17:45,450
those same issues would be there and it

3079
02:17:50,479 --> 02:17:47,660
doesn't really matter so I just II

3080
02:17:52,190 --> 02:17:50,489
understand might my take on this law

3081
02:17:54,559 --> 02:17:52,200
salutely and it's a very reasonable

3082
02:17:56,839 --> 02:17:54,569
approach you know obviously that the key

3083
02:17:59,030 --> 02:17:56,849
thing is to assemble coalition's that

3084
02:18:01,179 --> 02:17:59,040
can do these things that no one that no

3085
02:18:05,299 --> 02:18:01,189
reasonable person who appreciates

3086
02:18:07,219 --> 02:18:05,309
individual rights in this agree on so we

3087
02:18:09,709 --> 02:18:07,229
can differ about what the causes are and

3088
02:18:11,479 --> 02:18:09,719
we can differ about you know the

3089
02:18:13,009 --> 02:18:11,489
particular people involved I happen not

3090
02:18:14,809 --> 02:18:13,019
to think for instance that it makes a

3091
02:18:16,759 --> 02:18:14,819
great deal of sense to say the Trump is

3092
02:18:19,099 --> 02:18:16,769
going to oppose the Zionists given what

3093
02:18:20,870 --> 02:18:19,109
he's actually done in Israel but again

3094
02:18:23,719 --> 02:18:20,880
you know it's just it's one of those

3095
02:18:25,580 --> 02:18:23,729
things where people sort themselves out

3096
02:18:27,290 --> 02:18:25,590
into effective groups that can you know

3097
02:18:29,599 --> 02:18:27,300
they can decide for themselves what

3098
02:18:31,160 --> 02:18:29,609
they're willing to agree with what

3099
02:18:33,950 --> 02:18:31,170
they're willing to agree to disagree on

3100
02:18:36,379 --> 02:18:33,960
and to the extent we get that right and

3101
02:18:39,040 --> 02:18:36,389
bring in people who you know who are

3102
02:18:40,940 --> 02:18:39,050
intellectually honest at the very least

3103
02:18:43,879 --> 02:18:40,950
then we can see these things being

3104
02:18:47,990 --> 02:18:43,889
addressed in ways that uh that I think

3105
02:18:51,080 --> 02:18:48,000
loose that overly broad ideology and

3106
02:18:53,959 --> 02:18:51,090
over broad theories about what is doing

3107
02:18:56,419 --> 02:18:53,969
what doesn't help us do as much it's not

3108
02:18:59,809 --> 02:18:56,429
as effective as nuanced thinking yeah

3109
02:19:04,309 --> 02:18:59,819
and in those days those days are gone in

3110
02:19:06,169 --> 02:19:04,319
that if if you are in a conversation it

3111
02:19:09,110 --> 02:19:06,179
doesn't even have to be on this show it

3112
02:19:12,160 --> 02:19:09,120
could be at a restaurant and somebody

3113
02:19:14,799 --> 02:19:12,170
brings up Trump or brings of hiller

3114
02:19:17,110 --> 02:19:14,809
you know some of what I'm out of here

3115
02:19:20,650 --> 02:19:17,120
you know and suddenly it's all those

3116
02:19:22,990 --> 02:19:20,660
anger where it whatever happened to

3117
02:19:25,480 --> 02:19:23,000
listening and the other thing is it's

3118
02:19:27,339 --> 02:19:25,490
really a simple point this country is

3119
02:19:29,860 --> 02:19:27,349
built on people being different and

3120
02:19:32,049 --> 02:19:29,870
that's what made us so cool that's what

3121
02:19:34,419 --> 02:19:32,059
made it so great everybody was different

3122
02:19:38,350 --> 02:19:34,429
and we collectively just came together

3123
02:19:40,780 --> 02:19:38,360
and and and because of that it's what

3124
02:19:43,839 --> 02:19:40,790
made this country's foundation so strong

3125
02:19:47,080 --> 02:19:43,849
and now nobody wants to even contemplate

3126
02:19:49,390 --> 02:19:47,090
the past and what what made this country

3127
02:19:52,570 --> 02:19:49,400
great to begin with it's a it's a

3128
02:19:55,090 --> 02:19:52,580
fascinating thing to see happen and

3129
02:19:56,740 --> 02:19:55,100
happen so so quickly in this country

3130
02:19:58,300 --> 02:19:56,750
let's go back to the phones hi you're

3131
02:20:04,740 --> 02:19:58,310
live on fade to black say how to bare a

3132
02:20:07,870 --> 02:20:04,750
brown Gabriel hey Gabriel hello everyone

3133
02:20:12,010 --> 02:20:07,880
I you know I'm sitting here listening

3134
02:20:14,440 --> 02:20:12,020
and I'm just kind of like I mean you

3135
02:20:19,330 --> 02:20:14,450
know ultimately like blown away but at

3136
02:20:23,140 --> 02:20:19,340
the same time it's like I feel like your

3137
02:20:27,240 --> 02:20:23,150
side of the community as far as breaking

3138
02:20:30,940 --> 02:20:27,250
open the secrecy and making sure people

3139
02:20:33,760 --> 02:20:30,950
understand what is being hidden is very

3140
02:20:36,219 --> 02:20:33,770
important and it's kind of like how I

3141
02:20:40,060 --> 02:20:36,229
feel from from like my side of the fence

3142
02:20:42,550 --> 02:20:40,070
as far as ufology and UFOs go because we

3143
02:20:45,370 --> 02:20:42,560
are you know trying to get all these

3144
02:20:48,700 --> 02:20:45,380
these secrets broken open and and get

3145
02:20:51,640 --> 02:20:48,710
everybody to see and hear and understand

3146
02:20:53,800 --> 02:20:51,650
what a lot of us know to be true and I

3147
02:20:56,260 --> 02:20:53,810
think that you you kind of bring that

3148
02:20:59,800 --> 02:20:56,270
that side of the of the you know the

3149
02:21:02,050 --> 02:20:59,810
hacker quote-unquote side of it kind of

3150
02:21:04,660 --> 02:21:02,060
it almost feels like to me like like

3151
02:21:06,580 --> 02:21:04,670
we're going to be an amalgamation where

3152
02:21:08,260 --> 02:21:06,590
it's all going to come together from all

3153
02:21:10,600 --> 02:21:08,270
you know and and and other different

3154
02:21:12,910 --> 02:21:10,610
genres as well because there's so much

3155
02:21:15,969 --> 02:21:12,920
hidden from us and I kind of wonder how

3156
02:21:18,820 --> 02:21:15,979
you feel about you know the kind of UFO

3157
02:21:22,450 --> 02:21:18,830
phenomenon as it as it you know as

3158
02:21:25,120 --> 02:21:22,460
perspective to to like just secrecy as

3159
02:21:26,140 --> 02:21:25,130
far as in general for what the

3160
02:21:28,780 --> 02:21:26,150
government is hidden

3161
02:21:30,820 --> 02:21:28,790
and corporations have hidden and all

3162
02:21:34,240 --> 02:21:30,830
these things that they do I mean how how

3163
02:21:36,990 --> 02:21:34,250
involved do you feel UFOs and and

3164
02:21:40,091 --> 02:21:37,000
ultimately extraterrestrials were

3165
02:21:43,390 --> 02:21:40,101
reflecting that it's never been at the

3166
02:21:46,810 --> 02:21:43,400
forefront of my thinking so in large

3167
02:21:49,240 --> 02:21:46,820
part because it's so inaccessible as in

3168
02:21:52,900 --> 02:21:49,250
its for one thing it's not something

3169
02:21:57,820 --> 02:21:52,910
that I felt what as important as that

3170
02:21:59,170 --> 02:21:57,830
issue would be it's a transcendent

3171
02:22:01,960 --> 02:21:59,180
importance if we're alone in the

3172
02:22:04,540 --> 02:22:01,970
universe or not and and if not to what

3173
02:22:06,580 --> 02:22:04,550
extent you know it's something that is

3174
02:22:08,051 --> 02:22:06,590
now taken very very seriously by people

3175
02:22:09,280 --> 02:22:08,061
who think about the long-term future of

3176
02:22:11,920 --> 02:22:09,290
humanity it's something where there's

3177
02:22:14,560 --> 02:22:11,930
there is a methodology that's been

3178
02:22:17,290 --> 02:22:14,570
composed you know by militaries and by

3179
02:22:18,850 --> 02:22:17,300
you know social scientists and by it

3180
02:22:20,591 --> 02:22:18,860
looks like a Brooking institution as you

3181
02:22:22,450 --> 02:22:20,601
probably know right it's something it's

3182
02:22:24,280 --> 02:22:22,460
been thought about and because and I

3183
02:22:27,100 --> 02:22:24,290
also what interests me most about it is

3184
02:22:30,100 --> 02:22:27,110
I I like anything in which there is a

3185
02:22:34,780 --> 02:22:30,110
fundamental dispute I like I like to

3186
02:22:37,091 --> 02:22:34,790
figure out why some people are adverse

3187
02:22:39,220 --> 02:22:37,101
to certain kinds of theories why they're

3188
02:22:40,720 --> 02:22:39,230
just automatically adverse to it how

3189
02:22:42,160 --> 02:22:40,730
they came to that position whether or

3190
02:22:44,980 --> 02:22:42,170
not it's valid now in the cases of

3191
02:22:48,670 --> 02:22:44,990
people who for some reason are just

3192
02:22:50,980 --> 02:22:48,680
violently violently pronounced words are

3193
02:22:54,341 --> 02:22:50,990
very much opposed to you know the idea

3194
02:22:56,620 --> 02:22:54,351
of UFOs I've tuned I've tend to found

3195
02:22:58,690 --> 02:22:56,630
find that it seems to just emerge from

3196
02:23:00,400 --> 02:22:58,700
this this thing's they picked up sort of

3197
02:23:02,080 --> 02:23:00,410
vague ideas that it just they associate

3198
02:23:03,610 --> 02:23:02,090
something with something silly and then

3199
02:23:04,960 --> 02:23:03,620
they just ride it off and that's that

3200
02:23:08,170 --> 02:23:04,970
something actually applies very much to

3201
02:23:09,670 --> 02:23:08,180
what I do you know it's easier now it's

3202
02:23:12,310 --> 02:23:09,680
hard to remember how much more difficult

3203
02:23:14,890 --> 02:23:12,320
it was 2010 to talk about large

3204
02:23:17,980 --> 02:23:14,900
government apparatuses that can that can

3205
02:23:20,020 --> 02:23:17,990
put out propaganda in very advanced ways

3206
02:23:21,310 --> 02:23:20,030
but luckily when we started cracking

3207
02:23:23,801 --> 02:23:21,320
open things like persona management's

3208
02:23:25,330 --> 02:23:23,811
and and now given that everyone is very

3209
02:23:27,011 --> 02:23:25,340
worried about BOTS which which are very

3210
02:23:28,150 --> 02:23:27,021
simple sort of blunt versions of persona

3211
02:23:29,470 --> 02:23:28,160
management's which is a very

3212
02:23:32,801 --> 02:23:29,480
sophisticated way of running as people

3213
02:23:35,230 --> 02:23:32,811
you know we're now I think it's easier

3214
02:23:36,490 --> 02:23:35,240
to not just make the case reasonably but

3215
02:23:39,970 --> 02:23:36,500
to make the case and where people will

3216
02:23:41,980 --> 02:23:39,980
accept that you are never well sir

3217
02:23:44,680 --> 02:23:41,990
by assuming that you know a great deal

3218
02:23:47,830 --> 02:23:44,690
that a specialist subject and so people

3219
02:23:49,421 --> 02:23:47,840
who do the actual legwork and the

3220
02:23:52,450 --> 02:23:49,431
research and all that and have informed

3221
02:23:53,770 --> 02:23:52,460
opinions across the board those are the

3222
02:23:54,220 --> 02:23:53,780
people I always respect and want to work

3223
02:23:56,320 --> 02:23:54,230
with

3224
02:23:57,910 --> 02:23:56,330
regardless of what those beliefs might

3225
02:24:01,060 --> 02:23:57,920
be if they can defend them now I read a

3226
02:24:04,091 --> 02:24:01,070
book by Jack Jacques ballet originally

3227
02:24:07,631 --> 02:24:04,101
oh yeah yep again like I'm very

3228
02:24:10,690 --> 02:24:07,641
interested in you know what you might

3229
02:24:12,970 --> 02:24:10,700
call the the psychology of thought I

3230
02:24:14,591 --> 02:24:12,980
mean I hope it's a bad term the I meant

3231
02:24:16,000 --> 02:24:14,601
I'm interested again and how people come

3232
02:24:19,720 --> 02:24:16,010
to the conclusions they do and I'm also

3233
02:24:24,190 --> 02:24:19,730
interested in very unusual answers to

3234
02:24:26,680 --> 02:24:24,200
these questions and so not being hugely

3235
02:24:28,421 --> 02:24:26,690
familiar with the UFO literature I found

3236
02:24:31,301 --> 02:24:28,431
was a very interesting take you know

3237
02:24:34,480 --> 02:24:31,311
that sort of it was ultimately a

3238
02:24:36,990 --> 02:24:34,490
agnostic take but it was had very

3239
02:24:39,370 --> 02:24:37,000
interesting two things to say about the

3240
02:24:40,720 --> 02:24:39,380
intelligence community and the some of

3241
02:24:43,360 --> 02:24:40,730
the organizations that back in the 60s

3242
02:24:45,850 --> 02:24:43,370
and 70s were proliferating some which

3243
02:24:49,301 --> 02:24:45,860
were very bizarre and why they might

3244
02:24:52,301 --> 02:24:49,311
exist and beyond so there's there's

3245
02:24:53,680 --> 02:24:52,311
plenty there that if I had more time I

3246
02:24:56,440 --> 02:24:53,690
would explore further

3247
02:24:58,091 --> 02:24:56,450
I've just been occupied with you know

3248
02:25:00,400 --> 02:24:58,101
dealing with the government on earth and

3249
02:25:03,910 --> 02:25:00,410
and I I totally agree with you because

3250
02:25:06,671 --> 02:25:03,920
like for me you know I'm only 36 and I

3251
02:25:09,400 --> 02:25:06,681
think but when I was younger like my my

3252
02:25:12,970 --> 02:25:09,410
dad was involved with underground BBS's

3253
02:25:16,900 --> 02:25:12,980
and you know just just kind of

3254
02:25:18,190 --> 02:25:16,910
underground computing in the very

3255
02:25:20,710 --> 02:25:18,200
beginning I mean he still writes

3256
02:25:24,100 --> 02:25:20,720
programs to this day but my mom at the

3257
02:25:27,400 --> 02:25:24,110
time worked for the DoD in finances and

3258
02:25:29,470 --> 02:25:27,410
although it was like she was giving she

3259
02:25:31,841 --> 02:25:29,480
was coming home and confiding in him

3260
02:25:34,390 --> 02:25:31,851
these things she was learning she worked

3261
02:25:36,160 --> 02:25:34,400
under Dick Cheney and she was learning

3262
02:25:39,220 --> 02:25:36,170
all these things and seeing all these

3263
02:25:40,841 --> 02:25:39,230
these all the things going on that she

3264
02:25:43,720 --> 02:25:40,851
was just you know you know told the

3265
02:25:45,881 --> 02:25:43,730
process and passed forward whereas my

3266
02:25:47,801 --> 02:25:45,891
dad who was that logical you know

3267
02:25:50,381 --> 02:25:47,811
analytical deep thinker was like well

3268
02:25:52,060 --> 02:25:50,391
what why is it like this why are they

3269
02:25:53,469 --> 02:25:52,070
doing this how does how does this work

3270
02:25:55,029 --> 02:25:53,479
you know I mean all

3271
02:25:57,849 --> 02:25:55,039
these things are coming together so

3272
02:26:00,429 --> 02:25:57,859
strangely so his brain goes on this path

3273
02:26:03,309 --> 02:26:00,439
where he can't believe what's happening

3274
02:26:05,710 --> 02:26:03,319
and how it's going this way and my mom

3275
02:26:07,229 --> 02:26:05,720
you know is more of a spiritual kind of

3276
02:26:09,880 --> 02:26:07,239
you know who got me into

3277
02:26:11,469 --> 02:26:09,890
extraterrestrial and spirituality and

3278
02:26:14,319 --> 02:26:11,479
kind of digging deeper into what's

3279
02:26:16,929 --> 02:26:14,329
actually real and the - you know have

3280
02:26:19,779 --> 02:26:16,939
been like you know a racing path for me

3281
02:26:22,359 --> 02:26:19,789
because at times I'm more interested in

3282
02:26:24,399 --> 02:26:22,369
in what information is being hidden from

3283
02:26:26,679 --> 02:26:24,409
us from just you know like like your

3284
02:26:29,979 --> 02:26:26,689
side of the fence because that that is

3285
02:26:32,439 --> 02:26:29,989
like it's like you said it's it's easier

3286
02:26:34,750 --> 02:26:32,449
to grasp and easier to hold and for some

3287
02:26:36,969 --> 02:26:34,760
of us who are only focused on ufology

3288
02:26:38,500 --> 02:26:36,979
like that other side of it is just as

3289
02:26:40,090 --> 02:26:38,510
important and you have to understand it

3290
02:26:42,580 --> 02:26:40,100
because it's like Jimmy said where if

3291
02:26:44,410 --> 02:26:42,590
those kind of subjects come up and we

3292
02:26:46,510 --> 02:26:44,420
just storm off because we don't want to

3293
02:26:50,219 --> 02:26:46,520
hear that there's a deep state then

3294
02:26:52,269 --> 02:26:50,229
we're we're totally missing the the

3295
02:26:54,099 --> 02:26:52,279
connections between all these pieces

3296
02:26:56,559 --> 02:26:54,109
because all of them are going to come

3297
02:26:58,929 --> 02:26:56,569
together and I feel and I wonder how you

3298
02:27:00,550 --> 02:26:58,939
feel that it is do you think all these

3299
02:27:02,679 --> 02:27:00,560
pieces once they come together are going

3300
02:27:05,649 --> 02:27:02,689
to break down this quote/unquote wall

3301
02:27:07,359 --> 02:27:05,659
and allow us to have the freedom that we

3302
02:27:12,160 --> 02:27:07,369
should have in this country that kind of

3303
02:27:15,250 --> 02:27:12,170
you know started as I can I would

3304
02:27:20,189 --> 02:27:15,260
actually be surprised if a major

3305
02:27:23,830 --> 02:27:20,199
revelation regarding UFOs led to a

3306
02:27:26,620 --> 02:27:23,840
comprehensive improved you know free or

3307
02:27:27,849 --> 02:27:26,630
better world I can see that the I think

3308
02:27:29,529 --> 02:27:27,859
the Brookings Institution back when they

3309
02:27:31,090 --> 02:27:29,539
first are looking at the issue and other

3310
02:27:33,219 --> 02:27:31,100
other groups that have had policy also

3311
02:27:35,290 --> 02:27:33,229
on UFOs for a long time

3312
02:27:36,399 --> 02:27:35,300
I think they that's their conclusion and

3313
02:27:37,960 --> 02:27:36,409
they it could be wrong and then of

3314
02:27:40,750 --> 02:27:37,970
course that that presumably would be the

3315
02:27:42,399 --> 02:27:40,760
reason for having a UFO policy in the

3316
02:27:44,500 --> 02:27:42,409
first place is look is there's this huge

3317
02:27:47,679 --> 02:27:44,510
thing that's going to happen how would

3318
02:27:50,500 --> 02:27:47,689
that change people and you know no think

3319
02:27:51,340 --> 02:27:50,510
tank is prescience they can make they

3320
02:27:55,029 --> 02:27:51,350
can make predictions about the future

3321
02:27:56,469 --> 02:27:55,039
about human psychology in some cases

3322
02:27:58,479 --> 02:27:56,479
they have access to more data than we do

3323
02:28:00,460 --> 02:27:58,489
in part because they have you know all

3324
02:28:01,989 --> 02:28:00,470
kinds of bizarre unethical you know

3325
02:28:04,090 --> 02:28:01,999
history whether the CIA and of the

3326
02:28:06,099 --> 02:28:04,100
Japanese war criminals that we captured

3327
02:28:06,980 --> 02:28:06,109
and learn from the Nazis as well they

3328
02:28:08,720 --> 02:28:06,990
didn't have a larger

3329
02:28:10,280 --> 02:28:08,730
knowledge to decide how people were

3330
02:28:11,841 --> 02:28:10,290
gonna react to different things we also

3331
02:28:15,830 --> 02:28:11,851
have of course you know that one of the

3332
02:28:18,410 --> 02:28:15,840
world's incidents so so I can't say I'm

3333
02:28:21,410 --> 02:28:18,420
an optimist about and again I'm I am

3334
02:28:22,761 --> 02:28:21,420
agnostic on most of the issues I will

3335
02:28:24,290 --> 02:28:22,771
tell you that the very fact that there

3336
02:28:25,820 --> 02:28:24,300
is a UFO policy and the fact that

3337
02:28:28,190 --> 02:28:25,830
Brookings Institution was writing these

3338
02:28:30,470 --> 02:28:28,200
documents about these things that is

3339
02:28:33,980 --> 02:28:30,480
something that any journalist who just

3340
02:28:35,930 --> 02:28:33,990
last is as though UFOs is a fool that is

3341
02:28:37,610 --> 02:28:35,940
is ultimately is immediately your job to

3342
02:28:40,881 --> 02:28:37,620
look in in to why that's the case

3343
02:28:44,750 --> 02:28:40,891
doesn't matter if UFOs exist or not it

3344
02:28:46,580 --> 02:28:44,760
is a part of the human psychology and to

3345
02:28:49,790 --> 02:28:46,590
the extent that's true it can be

3346
02:28:51,110 --> 02:28:49,800
leveraged by bad actors beyond that

3347
02:28:52,881 --> 02:28:51,120
obviously to the extent that it is true

3348
02:28:54,860 --> 02:28:52,891
and I agree with Jacquie valet that

3349
02:28:56,480 --> 02:28:54,870
there is some phenomenon that maybe

3350
02:28:58,190 --> 02:28:56,490
immaterial may not be a physical

3351
02:29:00,530 --> 02:28:58,200
phenomenon or it could be some

3352
02:29:03,020 --> 02:29:00,540
combination of things but uh to the

3353
02:29:05,120 --> 02:29:03,030
extent that that is the case included to

3354
02:29:06,980 --> 02:29:05,130
the extent that obviously there's plenty

3355
02:29:10,640 --> 02:29:06,990
of scientists who do not oppose the idea

3356
02:29:13,220 --> 02:29:10,650
of you know either extra dimensional

3357
02:29:15,230 --> 02:29:13,230
beings or you know sort of physical you

3358
02:29:18,980 --> 02:29:15,240
know old-school aliens of the popular

3359
02:29:22,160 --> 02:29:18,990
imagination it's it's it's a crime

3360
02:29:24,650 --> 02:29:22,170
against against the human intellect and

3361
02:29:27,051 --> 02:29:24,660
against our progress forward to to use

3362
02:29:29,660 --> 02:29:27,061
arguments from absurdity and sort of

3363
02:29:30,921 --> 02:29:29,670
scoff at things without having fully

3364
02:29:33,980 --> 02:29:30,931
investigated and unfortunately it's a

3365
02:29:36,410 --> 02:29:33,990
very widespread crime if it is true if

3366
02:29:38,511 --> 02:29:36,420
it were true that there was for instance

3367
02:29:40,131 --> 02:29:38,521
a secret alien government we would never

3368
02:29:41,480 --> 02:29:40,141
know about it because how do you how do

3369
02:29:42,801 --> 02:29:41,490
you begin the process of getting an

3370
02:29:44,540 --> 02:29:42,811
editor a producer to listen to that I

3371
02:29:45,620 --> 02:29:44,550
came and get them for the most part to

3372
02:29:46,820 --> 02:29:45,630
acknowledge things that I've already

3373
02:29:47,720 --> 02:29:46,830
written about elsewhere because they

3374
02:29:49,250 --> 02:29:47,730
don't think they don't believe them if

3375
02:29:51,860 --> 02:29:49,260
they haven't seen them picked up by

3376
02:29:53,211 --> 02:29:51,870
other outlets they're just a lot of

3377
02:29:54,711 --> 02:29:53,221
there's a lot of heuristics involved

3378
02:29:56,511 --> 02:29:54,721
there's a lot of just poor logic

3379
02:29:58,970 --> 02:29:56,521
involved in the way in which we respond

3380
02:30:01,610 --> 02:29:58,980
to things and that's one of those things

3381
02:30:02,290 --> 02:30:01,620
that I don't see being fixed anytime

3382
02:30:04,430 --> 02:30:02,300
soon

3383
02:30:06,551 --> 02:30:04,440
Gabriel thank you for the phone call my

3384
02:30:08,930 --> 02:30:06,561
friend enjoyed the rest of your weekend

3385
02:30:11,180 --> 02:30:08,940
thank you guys very much I appreciate

3386
02:30:13,730 --> 02:30:11,190
you yeah thank you so much great phone

3387
02:30:16,700 --> 02:30:13,740
call very can I get you to hang on for

3388
02:30:19,700 --> 02:30:16,710
ten minutes or do a little overtime sure

3389
02:30:20,330 --> 02:30:19,710
I'm not I'm not finished tonight but I

3390
02:30:24,349 --> 02:30:20,340
want

3391
02:30:26,960 --> 02:30:24,359
to go back and actually finish your

3392
02:30:28,639 --> 02:30:26,970
thought there which is this you said

3393
02:30:32,270 --> 02:30:28,649
something that I think it's critical if

3394
02:30:36,440 --> 02:30:32,280
you went to your news director or your

3395
02:30:38,900 --> 02:30:36,450
editor and said like if you're sick for

3396
02:30:40,849 --> 02:30:38,910
this Vanity Fair write HuffPost you

3397
02:30:42,020 --> 02:30:40,859
might get away with it but if you you

3398
02:30:45,290 --> 02:30:42,030
know you went to them and said hey you

3399
02:30:47,630 --> 02:30:45,300
know I got this serious piece here about

3400
02:30:49,820 --> 02:30:47,640
UFOs and abduction or a sighting that

3401
02:30:52,010 --> 02:30:49,830
happened and and I've got this in the

3402
02:30:54,650 --> 02:30:52,020
you know can I move forward with this

3403
02:30:56,599 --> 02:30:54,660
can I go out and and start to talk to

3404
02:30:59,570 --> 02:30:56,609
these these people and these witnesses

3405
02:31:01,610 --> 02:30:59,580
would you even would you even have that

3406
02:31:04,070 --> 02:31:01,620
conversation with the auditor I mean

3407
02:31:05,690 --> 02:31:04,080
where would that go I can tell you their

3408
02:31:07,750 --> 02:31:05,700
conversations with my editors that I've

3409
02:31:10,880 --> 02:31:07,760
had and that resulted to me quitting

3410
02:31:12,469 --> 02:31:10,890
eventually over those kind of things in

3411
02:31:13,880 --> 02:31:12,479
one case you know I was asking to write

3412
02:31:15,590 --> 02:31:13,890
about something that I had already

3413
02:31:18,110 --> 02:31:15,600
written about before this is row Moscow

3414
02:31:21,710 --> 02:31:18,120
it was this large apparatus that the US

3415
02:31:22,910 --> 02:31:21,720
government uses sort of propaganda and

3416
02:31:23,900 --> 02:31:22,920
surveillance thing it's sort of too

3417
02:31:25,790 --> 02:31:23,910
complex for us to get our head around

3418
02:31:27,889 --> 02:31:25,800
but it involves all these aspects that

3419
02:31:29,810 --> 02:31:27,899
we can point out like everything from

3420
02:31:31,820 --> 02:31:29,820
natural linguistics processing to cell

3421
02:31:33,889 --> 02:31:31,830
phone games it was a very strange deal I

3422
02:31:35,660 --> 02:31:33,899
wrote about it eventually for the

3423
02:31:37,340 --> 02:31:35,670
Guardian and put out a piece on our

3424
02:31:41,300 --> 02:31:37,350
website back in the project PM days and

3425
02:31:44,360 --> 02:31:41,310
more recently max Blumenthal has

3426
02:31:45,950 --> 02:31:44,370
referenced that because there was one

3427
02:31:47,420 --> 02:31:45,960
aspect of it that this editor could not

3428
02:31:51,230 --> 02:31:47,430
get his head around and that was that

3429
02:31:53,330 --> 02:31:51,240
Apple and Google had both met with aaron

3430
02:31:54,860 --> 02:31:53,340
barr and these these companies HBGary

3431
02:31:56,389 --> 02:31:54,870
the ones that we investigated originally

3432
02:31:58,910 --> 02:31:56,399
the one driving this team thema scandal

3433
02:32:01,160 --> 02:31:58,920
they met with them and some larger

3434
02:32:03,530 --> 02:32:01,170
companies to work on this recompete

3435
02:32:06,050 --> 02:32:03,540
contract for this big apparatus now this

3436
02:32:08,000 --> 02:32:06,060
is something we know this the emails on

3437
02:32:09,980 --> 02:32:08,010
this can come from the same place the

3438
02:32:11,690 --> 02:32:09,990
emails came on all these other things

3439
02:32:13,130 --> 02:32:11,700
that work that were a big news on him

3440
02:32:14,660 --> 02:32:13,140
for a month after we discovered then the

3441
02:32:18,139 --> 02:32:14,670
whole team themelis thing going after

3442
02:32:19,280 --> 02:32:18,149
journalists blah blah blah but first and

3443
02:32:22,520 --> 02:32:19,290
we had the emails I could point to him

3444
02:32:24,770 --> 02:32:22,530
but for some reason this editor who had

3445
02:32:27,500 --> 02:32:24,780
been an editor at major publications for

3446
02:32:28,969 --> 02:32:27,510
quite a while he just didn't think it

3447
02:32:30,620 --> 02:32:28,979
would be the case and he started

3448
02:32:34,189 --> 02:32:30,630
lecturing me on how I've misunderstood

3449
02:32:38,239 --> 02:32:34,199
something and so I can't even imagine

3450
02:32:41,269 --> 02:32:38,249
uh you know if a UFO crashed in the

3451
02:32:43,699 --> 02:32:41,279
backyard of where I'm at right now I'd

3452
02:32:45,709 --> 02:32:43,709
probably just you know I might take some

3453
02:32:47,840 --> 02:32:45,719
pictures but I wouldn't send I wouldn't

3454
02:32:49,340 --> 02:32:47,850
send them to you I hate the

3455
02:32:50,749 --> 02:32:49,350
publication's arrived for luckily I'm a

3456
02:32:53,209 --> 02:32:50,759
freelance very much anymore I've got the

3457
02:32:54,349 --> 02:32:53,219
book coming out and all that so I you

3458
02:33:00,139 --> 02:32:54,359
know I'm getting out of that whole thing

3459
02:33:01,039 --> 02:33:00,149
because trying to convince an editor of

3460
02:33:02,239 --> 02:33:01,049
something he doesn't want to be

3461
02:33:04,369 --> 02:33:02,249
convinced of well it's something that

3462
02:33:06,079 --> 02:33:04,379
that sort of goes against his idea that

3463
02:33:07,459 --> 02:33:06,089
the press has things under control you

3464
02:33:09,050 --> 02:33:07,469
know a lot of people don't reason they

3465
02:33:11,029 --> 02:33:09,060
don't believe that JFK could have been

3466
02:33:13,249 --> 02:33:11,039
assassinated by a conspiracy involving

3467
02:33:15,590 --> 02:33:13,259
CIA elements is because they they have

3468
02:33:17,420 --> 02:33:15,600
that much faith in the press that they

3469
02:33:19,550 --> 02:33:17,430
would have gotten it right and that's a

3470
02:33:22,219 --> 02:33:19,560
big part of why it's very difficult to

3471
02:33:24,769 --> 02:33:22,229
deal with anything that for some reason

3472
02:33:25,699 --> 02:33:24,779
even has the the aura of being a

3473
02:33:30,529 --> 02:33:25,709
conspiracy theory

3474
02:33:32,479 --> 02:33:30,539
vastly misused as if as if conspiracies

3475
02:33:34,939 --> 02:33:32,489
were not something or some supernatural

3476
02:33:38,539 --> 02:33:34,949
thing that we can that we in hotel can't

3477
02:33:41,119 --> 02:33:38,549
prove the do Jake charges hundreds of

3478
02:33:45,469 --> 02:33:41,129
people with conspiracies every every

3479
02:33:46,849 --> 02:33:45,479
month you know it this opens up other

3480
02:33:49,340 --> 02:33:46,859
other topics you know just about how we

3481
02:33:51,469 --> 02:33:49,350
think about a secret secrecy and how we

3482
02:33:54,079 --> 02:33:51,479
think about the possibilities inherent

3483
02:33:56,269 --> 02:33:54,089
to humanity but this is this is where it

3484
02:33:59,559 --> 02:33:56,279
were a race that you know thousands of

3485
02:34:02,239 --> 02:33:59,569
years ago throughout much the world

3486
02:34:05,479 --> 02:34:02,249
convinced people to build pyramids in

3487
02:34:10,039 --> 02:34:05,489
honor of their godhood there's you know

3488
02:34:12,380 --> 02:34:10,049
that there is a great vast potential of

3489
02:34:14,599 --> 02:34:12,390
human experience and of human folly and

3490
02:34:16,749 --> 02:34:14,609
we have records of a great deal of it

3491
02:34:18,920 --> 02:34:16,759
some of some very recent unfortunately

3492
02:34:22,429 --> 02:34:18,930
it would be it would be foolish for

3493
02:34:24,709 --> 02:34:22,439
anyone to ever really set forth to

3494
02:34:30,199 --> 02:34:24,719
really hold on to a concrete view of

3495
02:34:31,609 --> 02:34:30,209
life and of reality and that's what

3496
02:34:33,619 --> 02:34:31,619
people have done for thousands of years

3497
02:34:35,630 --> 02:34:33,629
and we look back at them and now we see

3498
02:34:37,010 --> 02:34:35,640
that wrong we think they're wrong that's

3499
02:34:38,269 --> 02:34:37,020
right and we don't take this we don't

3500
02:34:40,659 --> 02:34:38,279
take the same lesson to heart so that's

3501
02:34:42,679 --> 02:34:40,669
you know that's a huge problem that

3502
02:34:44,809 --> 02:34:42,689
informs lots of other little little

3503
02:34:47,309 --> 02:34:44,819
problems as well well it's easier to

3504
02:34:49,290 --> 02:34:47,319
just take the easy road

3505
02:34:51,300 --> 02:34:49,300
right yeah there's a practice a

3506
02:34:52,679 --> 02:34:51,310
practical matter no journalist wants to

3507
02:34:55,439 --> 02:34:52,689
even if a journalist is convinced that

3508
02:34:58,429 --> 02:34:55,449
there is something that is involve

3509
02:35:02,609 --> 02:34:58,439
importance that he can probably prove

3510
02:35:04,649 --> 02:35:02,619
via documents yes to ask the question

3511
02:35:07,019 --> 02:35:04,659
will anyone pay attention well even get

3512
02:35:09,389 --> 02:35:07,029
this past an editor and in the process

3513
02:35:11,040 --> 02:35:09,399
will I destroy my ability to do other

3514
02:35:13,559 --> 02:35:11,050
stories that's right and that's that's

3515
02:35:15,929 --> 02:35:13,569
that's absolutely the main thing then

3516
02:35:18,630 --> 02:35:15,939
there is there is less need in there

3517
02:35:21,139 --> 02:35:18,640
then we would hope in an ideal world for

3518
02:35:23,460 --> 02:35:21,149
the kind of censorship apparatus that uh

3519
02:35:25,170 --> 02:35:23,470
you know some people think we have a lot

3520
02:35:28,109 --> 02:35:25,180
of it is automatics a lot of it itself

3521
02:35:30,090 --> 02:35:28,119
is done by the failures of of that

3522
02:35:31,529 --> 02:35:30,100
industry a lot of it is done

3523
02:35:32,819 --> 02:35:31,539
person-to-person

3524
02:35:35,069 --> 02:35:32,829
it's the failures that occur when people

3525
02:35:36,540 --> 02:35:35,079
don't think properly let's take a break

3526
02:35:38,340 --> 02:35:36,550
right here and then I'm gonna I'm gonna

3527
02:35:40,500 --> 02:35:38,350
hold you over for about ten more minutes

3528
02:35:41,429 --> 02:35:40,510
okay and I really appreciate this

3529
02:35:43,559 --> 02:35:41,439
conversation

3530
02:35:45,989 --> 02:35:43,569
this is fade to black its fate or night

3531
02:35:48,119 --> 02:35:45,999
I am your host Jimmy Church more of your

3532
02:35:50,399 --> 02:35:48,129
phone calls are next but I'm gonna hold

3533
02:35:53,010 --> 02:35:50,409
to bear it over because I want to ask

3534
02:35:55,439 --> 02:35:53,020
him about those days of disclosure with

3535
02:35:56,400 --> 02:35:55,449
the New York Times I'll be right back

3536
02:35:58,610 --> 02:35:56,410
stay with us

3537
02:35:59,680 --> 02:35:58,620
[Music]

3538
02:36:07,910 --> 02:35:59,690
[Applause]

3539
02:36:20,140 --> 02:36:16,310
[Music]

3540
02:36:24,560 --> 02:36:23,151
box here and you are listening to my boy

3541
02:36:33,140 --> 02:36:24,570
Jimmy Church

3542
02:36:35,030 --> 02:36:33,150
opinion reading a book will not make you

3543
02:36:37,970 --> 02:36:35,040
smarter

3544
02:36:41,030 --> 02:36:37,980
but listening to Jimmy church will

3545
02:36:45,270 --> 02:36:41,040
[Applause]

3546
02:36:47,190 --> 02:36:45,280
hurricanes earthquakes wildfires this

3547
02:36:49,650 --> 02:36:47,200
year we've experienced more than our

3548
02:36:51,960 --> 02:36:49,660
fair share this is Jimmy Church of fade

3549
02:36:53,970 --> 02:36:51,970
to black and last month I decided to

3550
02:36:56,400 --> 02:36:53,980
make sure my family does not have to

3551
02:36:59,551 --> 02:36:56,410
worry about food should we get caught in

3552
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a real emergency situation introducing

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those times of duress all new manna

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too just click on the new manna banner

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like the bunker leaning further into the

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Bagley tapi hey can we talk about

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something serious for a minute your age

3591
02:38:47,059 --> 02:38:44,609
getting old has its perks but remember

3592
02:38:49,099 --> 02:38:47,069
being a few years younger you know your

3593
02:38:50,960 --> 02:38:49,109
hair was thicker you didn't have so many

3594
02:38:52,969 --> 02:38:50,970
wrinkles that extra weight wasn't

3595
02:38:55,250 --> 02:38:52,979
haunting you and you just felt better

3596
02:38:57,920 --> 02:38:55,260
well we can't turn back the clocks and

3597
02:39:00,080 --> 02:38:57,930
go back 10 or 15 years but you can start

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02:39:03,229 --> 02:39:00,090
feeling and looking 10 or 15 years

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younger with nature's youth RSF it's a

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3602
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3603
02:39:12,649 --> 02:39:11,310
imagine sleeping better looking better

3604
02:39:15,229 --> 02:39:12,659
and feeling better

3605
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see how Nature's youth RSF has helped

3606
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thousands of people just like you at

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3608
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the holidays are coming imagine how it

3609
02:39:25,670 --> 02:39:23,939
will feel when your family and friends

3610
02:39:28,040 --> 02:39:25,680
are asking you what you did to look so

3611
02:39:30,349 --> 02:39:28,050
good your secret will be nature's youth

3612
02:39:32,809 --> 02:39:30,359
RSF it's time to start looking better

3613
02:39:34,880 --> 02:39:32,819
and feeling better learn more in order

3614
02:39:45,180 --> 02:39:34,890
your nature's use RSS at nature's youth

3615
02:39:57,550 --> 02:39:48,881
it's not a lifestyle we chose we were

3616
02:39:57,560 --> 02:40:04,450
this is KJ CR Jimmy's Hertz radio job

3617
02:40:04,460 --> 02:40:16,219
[Music]

3618
02:40:22,980 --> 02:40:19,590
all right welcome back fade to black

3619
02:40:26,179 --> 02:40:22,990
very special fader night bear Brown is

3620
02:40:29,190 --> 02:40:26,189
here hanging with the phone calls I

3621
02:40:30,690 --> 02:40:29,200
might add and it's doing a little

3622
02:40:34,620 --> 02:40:30,700
overtime with us I didn't want to let

3623
02:40:38,070 --> 02:40:34,630
him go without asking you about this

3624
02:40:39,929 --> 02:40:38,080
Barrett which is and it's interesting

3625
02:40:42,570 --> 02:40:39,939
how you brought up Jacques LA and

3626
02:40:45,150 --> 02:40:42,580
Brookings and certainly you've got a a

3627
02:40:46,469 --> 02:40:45,160
good fundamental foundation here and I

3628
02:40:49,320 --> 02:40:46,479
think that's great when we're talking

3629
02:40:51,600 --> 02:40:49,330
about UFOs but you're also a journalist

3630
02:40:57,510 --> 02:40:51,610
and you monitor what the mass media is

3631
02:41:02,940 --> 02:40:57,520
doing back in December 16th of 2017

3632
02:41:04,980 --> 02:41:02,950
the New York Times released this UFO

3633
02:41:08,130 --> 02:41:04,990
information about the Pentagon having a

3634
02:41:11,790 --> 02:41:08,140
secret program some videos were released

3635
02:41:15,120 --> 02:41:11,800
a pilot had come forward and so forth

3636
02:41:17,040 --> 02:41:15,130
and that spun out of control and we had

3637
02:41:20,340 --> 02:41:17,050
about two or three months I'm sure you

3638
02:41:22,320 --> 02:41:20,350
saw all of it of constant media coverage

3639
02:41:25,320 --> 02:41:22,330
of the UFO subject for the first time

3640
02:41:27,560 --> 02:41:25,330
ever in the history of of this country

3641
02:41:31,320 --> 02:41:27,570
it's never been covered like that before

3642
02:41:34,920 --> 02:41:31,330
two things came out of that one was the

3643
02:41:38,639 --> 02:41:34,930
coverage but the second part was the

3644
02:41:41,670 --> 02:41:38,649
mass media suddenly whether it was print

3645
02:41:45,690 --> 02:41:41,680
online or television was suddenly

3646
02:41:47,940 --> 02:41:45,700
comfortable with with the subject what

3647
02:41:51,480 --> 02:41:47,950
what did you think about that as you saw

3648
02:41:55,440 --> 02:41:51,490
this front-page news of UFOs for the

3649
02:41:57,290 --> 02:41:55,450
first time my experience with both being

3650
02:41:59,969 --> 02:41:57,300
a subject of the press and being a

3651
02:42:01,710 --> 02:41:59,979
journalist and a press critic who pays

3652
02:42:05,280 --> 02:42:01,720
special attention to journalism is

3653
02:42:07,560 --> 02:42:05,290
generally that a lot of the things that

3654
02:42:12,620 --> 02:42:07,570
go down are very much the complex

3655
02:42:14,820 --> 02:42:12,630
results of personal ambition career ism

3656
02:42:20,580 --> 02:42:14,830
heuristics you know just the poor

3657
02:42:23,460 --> 02:42:20,590
thinking money and ideology but a mixed

3658
02:42:25,200 --> 02:42:23,470
in in all different amounts the various

3659
02:42:26,670 --> 02:42:25,210
primality outlets there is also of

3660
02:42:30,240 --> 02:42:26,680
course historically a degree of

3661
02:42:32,070 --> 02:42:30,250
infiltration by intelligence communities

3662
02:42:33,990 --> 02:42:32,080
of the u.s. press and that was I think I

3663
02:42:35,760 --> 02:42:34,000
did probably that's a peak in the later

3664
02:42:38,550 --> 02:42:35,770
end of the Cold War or the 60s and 70s

3665
02:42:40,590 --> 02:42:38,560
when you know you had Reuters you know

3666
02:42:42,599 --> 02:42:40,600
Washington Post Time magazine was you

3667
02:42:44,429 --> 02:42:42,609
know voluntarily sort of in the service

3668
02:42:49,469 --> 02:42:44,439
of the CIA Henry Luce you know was you

3669
02:42:50,910 --> 02:42:49,479
know having said that right now so I

3670
02:42:52,559 --> 02:42:50,920
read that article when it came out

3671
02:42:54,450 --> 02:42:52,569
and I was obviously interested to see

3672
02:42:57,479 --> 02:42:54,460
what would come of it from the press and

3673
02:43:00,240 --> 02:42:57,489
I didn't I didn't pay enough attention

3674
02:43:04,139 --> 02:43:00,250
to know to see how much coverage there

3675
02:43:07,110 --> 02:43:04,149
was in the aftermath I did find it very

3676
02:43:10,380 --> 02:43:07,120
telling and unsurprising that there was

3677
02:43:13,530 --> 02:43:10,390
a mention in that article of this alien

3678
02:43:16,710 --> 02:43:13,540
alloy that was being held in a building

3679
02:43:18,210 --> 02:43:16,720
I guess in New Mexico blowing that was

3680
02:43:22,320 --> 02:43:18,220
sort of noted in passing and they're not

3681
02:43:23,880 --> 02:43:22,330
really dwelled upon right and so there's

3682
02:43:26,610 --> 02:43:23,890
a number of frameworks that can fall

3683
02:43:29,400 --> 02:43:26,620
under this we can explain this as my my

3684
02:43:32,880 --> 02:43:29,410
framework for this is that for some

3685
02:43:35,969 --> 02:43:32,890
reason or another you know these figures

3686
02:43:37,260 --> 02:43:35,979
around that project which he is my

3687
02:43:38,580 --> 02:43:37,270
understanding includes some people who

3688
02:43:40,740 --> 02:43:38,590
are basically private citizens who were

3689
02:43:43,620 --> 02:43:40,750
always in UFO ology and have now been

3690
02:43:51,300 --> 02:43:43,630
approached and asked to sort of I guess

3691
02:43:54,389 --> 02:43:51,310
oversee this this media initiative and

3692
02:43:56,040 --> 02:43:54,399
add beyond that bond that my my interest

3693
02:43:58,170 --> 02:43:56,050
has mostly been in how the press takes

3694
02:44:01,410 --> 02:43:58,180
it in the press you know I don't think

3695
02:44:02,910 --> 02:44:01,420
did a great job of you know running with

3696
02:44:04,679 --> 02:44:02,920
the questions here like what's the deal

3697
02:44:05,939 --> 02:44:04,689
with that alien alloy that would have

3698
02:44:06,929 --> 02:44:05,949
been my first question like hey you just

3699
02:44:08,729 --> 02:44:06,939
said there's an alien arrow in this

3700
02:44:11,280 --> 02:44:08,739
building that's kind of a huge deal

3701
02:44:13,679 --> 02:44:11,290
which has been sort of buried the lead I

3702
02:44:16,260 --> 02:44:13,689
don't think the people who wrote that

3703
02:44:17,580 --> 02:44:16,270
article I do not think they were working

3704
02:44:18,420 --> 02:44:17,590
in accordance with some plan it's

3705
02:44:21,420 --> 02:44:18,430
possible they were being given

3706
02:44:23,790 --> 02:44:21,430
information by people who were I can say

3707
02:44:25,760 --> 02:44:23,800
that if someone does an article the New

3708
02:44:30,330 --> 02:44:25,770
York Times about something like UFOs

3709
02:44:31,410 --> 02:44:30,340
it's something that the editors then

3710
02:44:35,070 --> 02:44:31,420
doesn't listen necessarily occur

3711
02:44:36,719 --> 02:44:35,080
encourage them to do but it's on you

3712
02:44:38,849 --> 02:44:36,729
it's unusual obviously I'm not saying

3713
02:44:40,920 --> 02:44:38,859
anything surprising there but it's it I

3714
02:44:44,030 --> 02:44:40,930
wonder if the dynamics there at the New

3715
02:44:48,450 --> 02:44:44,040
York Times and how this came about

3716
02:44:50,070 --> 02:44:48,460
beyond that really I'm very much I'm not

3717
02:44:51,421 --> 02:44:50,080
sure if non-plus as director I've never

3718
02:44:54,660 --> 02:44:51,431
really figured out what nonplussed means

3719
02:44:57,570 --> 02:44:54,670
I am I am I am confused about the

3720
02:45:01,140 --> 02:44:57,580
situation and there's and then there's

3721
02:45:03,360 --> 02:45:01,150
the other side of the issue which is in

3722
02:45:07,470 --> 02:45:03,370
you brought up the Brookings Institute

3723
02:45:09,150 --> 02:45:07,480
and the other reports that were done by

3724
02:45:13,801 --> 02:45:09,160
different agencies leading up to this

3725
02:45:15,240 --> 02:45:13,811
that once this was exposed like the New

3726
02:45:18,060 --> 02:45:15,250
York Times stated then it was you know

3727
02:45:21,180 --> 02:45:18,070
CNN and Fox and BBC and everybody

3728
02:45:24,360 --> 02:45:21,190
running with the story that religions

3729
02:45:26,251 --> 02:45:24,370
didn't collapse right Wall Street didn't

3730
02:45:30,330 --> 02:45:26,261
thought there wasn't pandemonium or

3731
02:45:33,600 --> 02:45:30,340
Anarchy or civil unrest that part it

3732
02:45:36,030 --> 02:45:33,610
seemed to just just kind of blow by

3733
02:45:39,660 --> 02:45:36,040
everybody and there wasn't this this

3734
02:45:42,150 --> 02:45:39,670
crazy reaction that others had suggested

3735
02:45:44,430 --> 02:45:42,160
would happen once it was exposed like it

3736
02:45:45,900 --> 02:45:44,440
was part of that has to do with how

3737
02:45:47,730 --> 02:45:45,910
bizarre things are already without

3738
02:45:50,041 --> 02:45:47,740
bringing UFOs in this thing there's

3739
02:45:52,110 --> 02:45:50,051
always there's a blanket of unusual

3740
02:45:55,080 --> 02:45:52,120
things going on that probably muffled it

3741
02:46:00,560 --> 02:45:55,090
a little bit but but undoubtedly that's

3742
02:46:03,961 --> 02:46:00,570
also because you know a limited

3743
02:46:06,930 --> 02:46:03,971
disclosure like that regardless of the

3744
02:46:09,841 --> 02:46:06,940
truth behind it that is something that

3745
02:46:12,330 --> 02:46:09,851
people can easily accommodate into their

3746
02:46:14,341 --> 02:46:12,340
worldview the people who believe that

3747
02:46:16,830 --> 02:46:14,351
UFOs definitely do not exist and that

3748
02:46:17,940 --> 02:46:16,840
they're you know just or whatever they

3749
02:46:19,711 --> 02:46:17,950
had nope don't have no problem with that

3750
02:46:21,751 --> 02:46:19,721
they'll say oh this is some crazy kooky

3751
02:46:23,730 --> 02:46:21,761
guys and they're just there's nothing to

3752
02:46:26,400 --> 02:46:23,740
it they'll say that the ones who are

3753
02:46:29,400 --> 02:46:26,410
very very fundamentalist religious

3754
02:46:30,930 --> 02:46:29,410
religious beliefs around the world will

3755
02:46:32,490 --> 02:46:30,940
incorporate it very quickly and easily

3756
02:46:33,660 --> 02:46:32,500
into their worldview just as the

3757
02:46:37,410 --> 02:46:33,670
Catholic Church has done for thousands

3758
02:46:38,671 --> 02:46:37,420
of years when they've needed to you know

3759
02:46:41,100 --> 02:46:38,681
the fact of the matter is that we at we

3760
02:46:46,680 --> 02:46:41,110
are PR these conscious beings that exist

3761
02:46:48,450 --> 02:46:46,690
in this in this incomparable situation

3762
02:46:50,461 --> 02:46:48,460
already and so really nothing should

3763
02:46:53,610 --> 02:46:50,471
surprise anyone but you know that there

3764
02:46:55,680 --> 02:46:53,620
are there are sort of mental structures

3765
02:46:57,090 --> 02:46:55,690
in place that again that can make some

3766
02:46:58,559 --> 02:46:57,100
things dangerous but there

3767
02:47:00,960 --> 02:46:58,569
a lot of the metaphors they use about

3768
02:47:01,920 --> 02:47:00,970
you know one civilization more advanced

3769
02:47:04,200 --> 02:47:01,930
encountering another one in that

3770
02:47:06,179 --> 02:47:04,210
civilization collapses

3771
02:47:08,010 --> 02:47:06,189
you know that's often true but it's

3772
02:47:08,880 --> 02:47:08,020
often not I mean the Chinese had no

3773
02:47:11,160 --> 02:47:08,890
problems

3774
02:47:13,439 --> 02:47:11,170
you know encountering these people was

3775
02:47:15,090 --> 02:47:13,449
sometimes more technology than them and

3776
02:47:16,500 --> 02:47:15,100
incorporating them into their culture

3777
02:47:19,200 --> 02:47:16,510
and they've done a great job of that in

3778
02:47:20,670 --> 02:47:19,210
the last couple hundred years you know a

3779
02:47:23,070 --> 02:47:20,680
lot of the examples of you know the

3780
02:47:24,240 --> 02:47:23,080
Aztecs and Incas you know there are

3781
02:47:28,200 --> 02:47:24,250
other factors that one just they were

3782
02:47:31,410 --> 02:47:28,210
overwhelmed by Cortes and and and

3783
02:47:34,260 --> 02:47:31,420
company there were just images other

3784
02:47:37,939 --> 02:47:34,270
other facts and play so I just I can

3785
02:47:41,309 --> 02:47:37,949
still see why a high-end sort of

3786
02:47:43,019 --> 02:47:41,319
think-tank person around the government

3787
02:47:44,490 --> 02:47:43,029
intelligence would have been concerned

3788
02:47:46,740 --> 02:47:44,500
about that possibility

3789
02:47:51,059 --> 02:47:46,750
back in the 50s especially what they do

3790
02:47:53,250 --> 02:47:51,069
do about the sort of Cold War thinking I

3791
02:47:54,809 --> 02:47:53,260
guess we know I guess we now now have

3792
02:47:58,229 --> 02:47:54,819
more knowledge about how the public will

3793
02:48:00,929 --> 02:47:58,239
react to gradual disclosures of any

3794
02:48:04,710 --> 02:48:00,939
contact with aliens we know that now I

3795
02:48:07,559 --> 02:48:04,720
guess yeah and the the other and you're

3796
02:48:09,479 --> 02:48:07,569
right about one point and before I even

3797
02:48:10,769 --> 02:48:09,489
say what that is I do want to thank you

3798
02:48:12,889 --> 02:48:10,779
for coming out tonight it's been an

3799
02:48:16,469 --> 02:48:12,899
amazing conversation I look forward to

3800
02:48:18,870 --> 02:48:16,479
talking not only in the future but you

3801
02:48:20,939 --> 02:48:18,880
mentioned queuing on I do want to get

3802
02:48:22,710 --> 02:48:20,949
into that with you at a later date and

3803
02:48:24,300 --> 02:48:22,720
some other stuff but just been a

3804
02:48:27,240 --> 02:48:24,310
fascinating conversation and thank you

3805
02:48:29,130 --> 02:48:27,250
but you did bring up I think a very

3806
02:48:35,099 --> 02:48:29,140
important point and some of the stuff

3807
02:48:37,580 --> 02:48:35,109
that you exposed not only with some of

3808
02:48:39,960 --> 02:48:37,590
the surveillance programs and the

3809
02:48:42,090 --> 02:48:39,970
civilian contractors and corporations

3810
02:48:45,510 --> 02:48:42,100
and the m.i.c the military industrial

3811
02:48:48,420 --> 02:48:45,520
complex that are using against our

3812
02:48:51,450 --> 02:48:48,430
citizens that that takes away some of

3813
02:48:54,000 --> 02:48:51,460
the shock of other things that would be

3814
02:48:56,010 --> 02:48:54,010
exposed later you know and that's I

3815
02:48:57,889 --> 02:48:56,020
think that's a very good point that you

3816
02:49:01,859 --> 02:48:57,899
brought up and you you were part of that

3817
02:49:03,889 --> 02:49:01,869
now before I say goodnight Kickstarter

3818
02:49:07,019 --> 02:49:03,899
has got three days left

3819
02:49:09,120 --> 02:49:07,029
where can everybody go we do have one of

3820
02:49:10,469 --> 02:49:09,130
the links up for Kickstarter but

3821
02:49:13,319 --> 02:49:10,479
pursuance

3822
02:49:14,059 --> 02:49:13,329
check dot org is the Kickstarter listed

3823
02:49:18,090 --> 02:49:14,069
there

3824
02:49:19,200 --> 02:49:18,100
you can you can look at the project and

3825
02:49:20,639 --> 02:49:19,210
you can look at the information on the

3826
02:49:22,050 --> 02:49:20,649
Kickstarter that that link so you can

3827
02:49:24,389 --> 02:49:22,060
get a good overview of what this is and

3828
02:49:27,779 --> 02:49:24,399
why it's worth your support thank you so

3829
02:49:29,219 --> 02:49:27,789
much Barrett a welcome back man it's

3830
02:49:31,800 --> 02:49:29,229
good to be bet it's it's it's kind of

3831
02:49:34,380 --> 02:49:31,810
good to be back it you know what go eat

3832
02:49:36,569 --> 02:49:34,390
some string beans man and welcome back

3833
02:49:39,510 --> 02:49:36,579
and I can't wait to have you back on the

3834
02:49:42,000 --> 02:49:39,520
show I know I'm looking at these

3835
02:49:43,889 --> 02:49:42,010
reactions from everybody tonight and

3836
02:49:46,889 --> 02:49:43,899
start inside of this community and it's

3837
02:49:48,989 --> 02:49:46,899
a large one and they just really enjoyed

3838
02:49:50,099 --> 02:49:48,999
the show thank you so much thank you

3839
02:49:52,830 --> 02:49:50,109
again for having me I appreciate it

3840
02:49:55,349 --> 02:49:52,840
Barrett Brown everybody it's very simple

3841
02:49:57,120 --> 02:49:55,359
go over to Jimmy Church radio.com you

3842
02:50:02,069 --> 02:49:57,130
can click on the Kickstarter links there

3843
02:50:04,500 --> 02:50:02,079
and it's also pursuance project.org go

3844
02:50:06,630 --> 02:50:04,510
and check it out it's an unbelievable

3845
02:50:08,010 --> 02:50:06,640
project he's been thinking about this

3846
02:50:11,189 --> 02:50:08,020
and putting this into place now for

3847
02:50:12,870 --> 02:50:11,199
almost 10 years and it's ready to go so

3848
02:50:15,569 --> 02:50:12,880
you can go and do your part over a

3849
02:50:19,830 --> 02:50:15,579
Kickstarter and go and read about all of

3850
02:50:21,510 --> 02:50:19,840
the details at pursuance project.org so

3851
02:50:26,069 --> 02:50:21,520
with that thank you so much better

3852
02:50:29,580 --> 02:50:26,079
behave and be well and I need to as I

3853
02:50:31,800 --> 02:50:29,590
say goodnight to bear it I'm going to

3854
02:50:33,149 --> 02:50:31,810
get back to these phones I've got so

3855
02:50:36,750 --> 02:50:33,159
many calls though they've been on hold

3856
02:50:38,910 --> 02:50:36,760
but Barrett just did 2 hours and 15

3857
02:50:41,849 --> 02:50:38,920
minutes tonight on fader night and took

3858
02:50:43,950 --> 02:50:41,859
all of those phone calls so there you go

3859
02:50:45,210 --> 02:50:43,960
let's let's go back to the phones hi

3860
02:50:48,899 --> 02:50:45,220
you're live on fade to black who's

3861
02:50:51,929 --> 02:50:48,909
calling Joe from Sacramento hi Deb would

3862
02:50:54,149 --> 02:50:51,939
you think about that conversation I mean

3863
02:50:55,550 --> 02:50:54,159
I had questions I want to ask him I'm

3864
02:50:58,109 --> 02:50:55,560
bummed but I didn't get to him in time

3865
02:51:00,239 --> 02:50:58,119
because of all his research and

3866
02:51:02,429 --> 02:51:00,249
everything but yeah I mean a fascinating

3867
02:51:05,609 --> 02:51:02,439
person and thank God he's free yes

3868
02:51:07,880 --> 02:51:05,619
finally unbelievable one of the points

3869
02:51:12,269 --> 02:51:07,890
that he brought up I didn't want to

3870
02:51:13,529 --> 02:51:12,279
dwell on the prison experience he was he

3871
02:51:16,050 --> 02:51:13,539
was like Jimmy I'll talk about all of

3872
02:51:18,179 --> 02:51:16,060
that but I didn't want to revisit those

3873
02:51:22,050 --> 02:51:18,189
because it's a you know it's not exactly

3874
02:51:23,740 --> 02:51:22,060
a fun time but after he gets out the

3875
02:51:28,390 --> 02:51:23,750
second he talked to

3876
02:51:31,540 --> 02:51:28,400
ooh vice they arrested him again and I

3877
02:51:32,590 --> 02:51:31,550
was reaching out to Barrett - come on

3878
02:51:36,460 --> 02:51:32,600
fade to black

3879
02:51:38,710 --> 02:51:36,470
and you know and and we had I was

3880
02:51:41,260 --> 02:51:38,720
pushing and it was about to happen and

3881
02:51:43,090 --> 02:51:41,270
then they turn around and arrest him for

3882
02:51:47,410 --> 02:51:43,100
speaking device which stopped him from

3883
02:51:50,080 --> 02:51:47,420
coming on this show and I just it's like

3884
02:51:53,560 --> 02:51:50,090
revisiting the nightmare again for him

3885
02:51:55,360 --> 02:51:53,570
and they they held him at an undisclosed

3886
02:51:58,360 --> 02:51:55,370
location and they wouldn't tell anybody

3887
02:52:00,280 --> 02:51:58,370
his family or anything what was going on

3888
02:52:03,130 --> 02:52:00,290
and it was like the nightmare started

3889
02:52:04,690 --> 02:52:03,140
all over again it was an unbelievable

3890
02:52:07,690 --> 02:52:04,700
thing he has been through a lot

3891
02:52:10,090 --> 02:52:07,700
I just talked about like it he takes

3892
02:52:14,500 --> 02:52:10,100
activists to a whole nother level man he

3893
02:52:18,850 --> 02:52:14,510
he definitely lives up to everything

3894
02:52:20,830 --> 02:52:18,860
that he says that he is about mm-hmm

3895
02:52:24,580 --> 02:52:20,840
absolutely hey can I go down on another

3896
02:52:26,170 --> 02:52:24,590
Road here real quick sure okay because I

3897
02:52:28,180 --> 02:52:26,180
didn't get stalked America since you had

3898
02:52:30,790 --> 02:52:28,190
Emory on the other night man my head was

3899
02:52:32,200 --> 02:52:30,800
just wrapping around the information

3900
02:52:34,030 --> 02:52:32,210
that Emory gives us and one of those

3901
02:52:37,450 --> 02:52:34,040
things that he dropped was Malaysian

3902
02:52:39,100 --> 02:52:37,460
flight 370 mm-hmm and when he disclosed

3903
02:52:42,160 --> 02:52:39,110
what he what he felt what really

3904
02:52:43,750 --> 02:52:42,170
happened with that and I think the fader

3905
02:52:46,000 --> 02:52:43,760
nots the audience is so big a lot of

3906
02:52:48,460 --> 02:52:46,010
people to notes I hope everyone and you

3907
02:52:50,350 --> 02:52:48,470
know relates to what I'm referring to so

3908
02:52:52,000 --> 02:52:50,360
as I thought about that situation it's

3909
02:52:54,580 --> 02:52:52,010
like so when they do something like that

3910
02:52:56,230 --> 02:52:54,590
is they're thinking you know well we got

3911
02:52:58,830 --> 02:52:56,240
to snap this whole Plane full of people

3912
02:53:02,140 --> 02:52:58,840
to save this server and save possibly

3913
02:53:03,580 --> 02:53:02,150
thousands of military or government

3914
02:53:05,350 --> 02:53:03,590
lives because of the sensitive

3915
02:53:08,140 --> 02:53:05,360
information on this server so does the

3916
02:53:09,760 --> 02:53:08,150
means justify the ends and they

3917
02:53:13,570 --> 02:53:09,770
obviously the answer in their mind was

3918
02:53:15,460 --> 02:53:13,580
yes and so that made me think back to a

3919
02:53:18,790 --> 02:53:15,470
conversation that you had with Tom

3920
02:53:21,130 --> 02:53:18,800
DeLonge and I think I don't remember

3921
02:53:25,090 --> 02:53:21,140
exactly how he put it but he was talking

3922
02:53:26,680 --> 02:53:25,100
about how the guys that have been you

3923
02:53:28,060 --> 02:53:26,690
know they get to we all get to go live

3924
02:53:29,680 --> 02:53:28,070
our lives and they're into the heavy

3925
02:53:31,600 --> 02:53:29,690
stuff and we have no idea what they're

3926
02:53:33,970 --> 02:53:31,610
dealing with and they have real hard

3927
02:53:36,160 --> 02:53:33,980
decisions to make and it kind of made me

3928
02:53:37,599 --> 02:53:36,170
go down that road mentally like what was

3929
02:53:40,029 --> 02:53:37,609
he referring to but yet he couldn't

3930
02:53:42,340 --> 02:53:40,039
talk about it so does the means and his

3931
02:53:45,309 --> 02:53:42,350
mind justify the ends also because he

3932
02:53:47,529 --> 02:53:45,319
knows supposedly these inside things

3933
02:53:49,569 --> 02:53:47,539
that they have to sacrifice one thing to

3934
02:53:51,819 --> 02:53:49,579
save you know who knows thousands or

3935
02:53:58,420 --> 02:53:51,829
millions of people kind of just got me

3936
02:54:02,849 --> 02:53:58,430
to thinking well what I found and I'm in

3937
02:54:07,000 --> 02:54:02,859
agreement with you in that there's

3938
02:54:08,979 --> 02:54:07,010
something going on here and before we go

3939
02:54:11,290 --> 02:54:08,989
whoa wait a minute you know I brought up

3940
02:54:14,469 --> 02:54:11,300
the possibility of you know a portal and

3941
02:54:17,619 --> 02:54:14,479
or UFO's I was thinking something

3942
02:54:20,909 --> 02:54:17,629
supernatural paranormal but there was

3943
02:54:24,040 --> 02:54:20,919
when when the second plane was shot down

3944
02:54:27,639 --> 02:54:24,050
there was this is where I had an issue

3945
02:54:30,279 --> 02:54:27,649
so I go back and I looked at Malaysian

3946
02:54:34,029 --> 02:54:30,289
Airlines now before anybody picks apart

3947
02:54:37,389 --> 02:54:34,039
what I'm about to say factually don't

3948
02:54:42,449 --> 02:54:37,399
worry about doing that I did go back and

3949
02:54:46,599 --> 02:54:42,459
look and I think they had at the time

3950
02:54:50,920 --> 02:54:46,609
something like twelve planes right

3951
02:54:55,229 --> 02:54:50,930
twelve or fourteen or whatever and we

3952
02:54:59,889 --> 02:54:55,239
have to stop and think about the odds of

3953
02:55:05,949 --> 02:54:59,899
two identical planes for the same

3954
02:55:10,059 --> 02:55:05,959
airline you know and I just thought this

3955
02:55:14,080 --> 02:55:10,069
is way beyond the odds of the known

3956
02:55:18,909 --> 02:55:14,090
universe you know this is like somebody

3957
02:55:20,830 --> 02:55:18,919
hitting the lottery the the mega two

3958
02:55:25,389 --> 02:55:20,840
weeks in a row I mean what are the odds

3959
02:55:27,399 --> 02:55:25,399
of that right and and not only those

3960
02:55:31,149 --> 02:55:27,409
odds but the fact that it came from was

3961
02:55:34,750 --> 02:55:31,159
such a small pool of airplanes it's a

3962
02:55:37,300 --> 02:55:34,760
very very small number and I thought

3963
02:55:39,790 --> 02:55:37,310
that there's got to be a way that these

3964
02:55:44,019 --> 02:55:39,800
two are connected could it have been the

3965
02:55:46,840 --> 02:55:44,029
same plane now when some of the

3966
02:55:50,110 --> 02:55:46,850
conspiracy guys out there that we're

3967
02:55:53,410 --> 02:55:50,120
looking and I got tons of email dad

3968
02:55:56,200 --> 02:55:53,420
showing me the photographs of the plane

3969
02:55:58,360 --> 02:55:56,210
and different angles of it and things

3970
02:56:00,300 --> 02:55:58,370
that said that it was the same plane

3971
02:56:03,400 --> 02:56:00,310
that it wasn't a different plane I

3972
02:56:05,110 --> 02:56:03,410
realize that I forget one of the guys

3973
02:56:07,540 --> 02:56:05,120
that was presenting this stuff was

3974
02:56:09,490 --> 02:56:07,550
getting his website hacked and and

3975
02:56:10,690 --> 02:56:09,500
images were disappearing I can't

3976
02:56:11,200 --> 02:56:10,700
remember who it was it doesn't really

3977
02:56:14,800 --> 02:56:11,210
matter

3978
02:56:16,480 --> 02:56:14,810
she imagined that imagine that and so

3979
02:56:18,010 --> 02:56:16,490
I'm trying to chase down this info and

3980
02:56:20,679 --> 02:56:18,020
every time I was getting close to

3981
02:56:22,500 --> 02:56:20,689
starting to see it these images were

3982
02:56:26,050 --> 02:56:22,510
disappearing in and the site was hacked

3983
02:56:30,130 --> 02:56:26,060
but I that's when I had to back up and

3984
02:56:31,510 --> 02:56:30,140
go wait a minute here how gullible is

3985
02:56:38,910 --> 02:56:31,520
this planet

3986
02:56:42,760 --> 02:56:38,920
that they are able to accept that

3987
02:56:45,969 --> 02:56:42,770
Malaysian air lost two planes like that

3988
02:56:48,670 --> 02:56:45,979
nearly back-to-back and that we're just

3989
02:56:50,469 --> 02:56:48,680
supposed to go well you know stuff

3990
02:56:53,800 --> 02:56:50,479
happens you know I want to use another

3991
02:56:59,290 --> 02:56:53,810
word there that it just it just happens

3992
02:57:04,570 --> 02:56:59,300
no it doesn't right but nobody it seemed

3993
02:57:06,599 --> 02:57:04,580
like to me when it came to not only what

3994
02:57:10,210 --> 02:57:06,609
happened in the Ukraine but the original

3995
02:57:12,790 --> 02:57:10,220
Malaysian plane disappearance that there

3996
02:57:15,340 --> 02:57:12,800
were no journalists out there and no

3997
02:57:19,179 --> 02:57:15,350
organizations that were willing to ask

3998
02:57:21,429 --> 02:57:19,189
the very simple basic questions which is

3999
02:57:25,360 --> 02:57:21,439
how do you lose a plane on radar when we

4000
02:57:29,139 --> 02:57:25,370
have worldwide GPS these days that Rolls

4001
02:57:32,800 --> 02:57:29,149
Royce has all of the real-time telemetry

4002
02:57:34,929 --> 02:57:32,810
going back to their company for every

4003
02:57:37,450 --> 02:57:34,939
rolls-royce engine that is running on

4004
02:57:39,700 --> 02:57:37,460
this planet and they are able to look at

4005
02:57:41,889 --> 02:57:39,710
the status of any engine and suddenly

4006
02:57:44,830 --> 02:57:41,899
when a plane disappears they don't have

4007
02:57:47,110 --> 02:57:44,840
that data you know and and these are

4008
02:57:50,200 --> 02:57:47,120
very basic fundamental questions that

4009
02:57:52,900 --> 02:57:50,210
weren't being asked and I was very

4010
02:57:54,760 --> 02:57:52,910
frustrated with that I I didn't

4011
02:57:58,950 --> 02:57:54,770
understand why and I still don't to this

4012
02:58:01,610 --> 02:57:58,960
day why somebody doesn't go back and

4013
02:58:03,801 --> 02:58:01,620
investigate the story that

4014
02:58:06,140 --> 02:58:03,811
he was willing to just let it go the

4015
02:58:08,240 --> 02:58:06,150
search ended the process you know the

4016
02:58:10,520 --> 02:58:08,250
presses the CREP the majority of the

4017
02:58:12,261 --> 02:58:10,530
mainstream media is paid off and to

4018
02:58:14,690 --> 02:58:12,271
suppress these things and that's why

4019
02:58:16,460 --> 02:58:14,700
they arrest people like your guests you

4020
02:58:18,770 --> 02:58:16,470
know they do not want the truth coming

4021
02:58:20,870 --> 02:58:18,780
out about this or Vegas and 9/11 or any

4022
02:58:23,390 --> 02:58:20,880
of it and the minute that that story

4023
02:58:24,980 --> 02:58:23,400
came out of Emory's mouth it certainly I

4024
02:58:26,690 --> 02:58:24,990
mean number one I believe anything that

4025
02:58:29,930 --> 02:58:26,700
he says because I think he's very

4026
02:58:34,160 --> 02:58:29,940
credible but it just kind of made it

4027
02:58:38,841 --> 02:58:34,170
made so much sense it's like whoa well

4028
02:58:41,600 --> 02:58:38,851
and and we have everything about 370

4029
02:58:45,020 --> 02:58:41,610
with all of those questions that are

4030
02:58:47,870 --> 02:58:45,030
there okay there's home there's hundreds

4031
02:58:50,600 --> 02:58:47,880
if not thousands of unanswered questions

4032
02:58:54,801 --> 02:58:50,610
there there's that part but when we go

4033
02:58:59,680 --> 02:58:54,811
back to the Ukraine we have the plane we

4034
02:59:01,880 --> 02:58:59,690
have the records and it is in a

4035
02:59:05,270 --> 02:59:01,890
civilized part of this world

4036
02:59:08,870 --> 02:59:05,280
where you had two armies against each

4037
02:59:10,551 --> 02:59:08,880
other and so there's there is the

4038
02:59:14,620 --> 02:59:10,561
weapons on the ground there's the flight

4039
02:59:18,650 --> 02:59:14,630
data there is black boxes there are

4040
02:59:21,860 --> 02:59:18,660
radars we the ability to find out what

4041
02:59:24,770 --> 02:59:21,870
kind of missile and where and who shot

4042
02:59:27,470 --> 02:59:24,780
this plane down that all of this

4043
02:59:31,730 --> 02:59:27,480
investigation and journalism would be

4044
02:59:33,530 --> 02:59:31,740
easy to do and none of it was followed

4045
02:59:38,660 --> 02:59:33,540
through on none of it

4046
02:59:40,400 --> 02:59:38,670
it's that is a crazy crazy situation

4047
02:59:43,670 --> 02:59:40,410
where and the world was just willing to

4048
02:59:46,160 --> 02:59:43,680
just go whatever it was just you know it

4049
02:59:48,250 --> 02:59:46,170
just was shot down and crashed you know

4050
02:59:51,950 --> 02:59:48,260
it doesn't matter who did it whatever

4051
02:59:55,720 --> 02:59:51,960
and no ability to go to the crash site

4052
03:00:02,450 --> 03:00:00,470
and it seemed to be accepted and I was

4053
03:00:04,250 --> 03:00:02,460
very frustrated with that I would I

4054
03:00:06,380 --> 03:00:04,260
would have thought that there would have

4055
03:00:08,870 --> 03:00:06,390
been an army of researchers

4056
03:00:10,430 --> 03:00:08,880
investigators and organizations that

4057
03:00:13,460 --> 03:00:10,440
would have put up a fight and gone in

4058
03:00:14,440 --> 03:00:13,470
and tried to find out the truth but it

4059
03:00:17,690 --> 03:00:14,450
never happened

4060
03:00:21,290 --> 03:00:17,700
you know so why didn't it was it because

4061
03:00:23,360 --> 03:00:21,300
it was the same was it mh370 right was

4062
03:00:25,190 --> 03:00:23,370
it this crazy conspiracy theory that

4063
03:00:28,610 --> 03:00:25,200
people have been talking about well now

4064
03:00:31,310 --> 03:00:28,620
you know what we'll never know we never

4065
03:00:32,920 --> 03:00:31,320
will well let's not forget the CIA is

4066
03:00:35,630 --> 03:00:32,930
the one that created the terms

4067
03:00:37,280 --> 03:00:35,640
conspiracy theory so they get it for a

4068
03:00:38,511 --> 03:00:37,290
reason you know people who want to seek

4069
03:00:40,850 --> 03:00:38,521
the truth there's nothing wrong with

4070
03:00:42,440 --> 03:00:40,860
that but we're not allowed to it was

4071
03:00:43,940 --> 03:00:42,450
what we will on the internet we searched

4072
03:00:45,890 --> 03:00:43,950
and we searched but then you know we're

4073
03:00:47,690 --> 03:00:45,900
you know discounted with conspiracy

4074
03:00:49,341 --> 03:00:47,700
theorist but credible people like ferret

4075
03:00:52,160 --> 03:00:49,351
they arrest him and look what they did

4076
03:00:55,070 --> 03:00:52,170
to Tony Robinson so again you know it's

4077
03:00:57,950 --> 03:00:55,080
it is very frustrating you know what was

4078
03:01:00,320 --> 03:00:57,960
really cool tonight with Barrett now I

4079
03:01:03,591 --> 03:01:00,330
had no idea about

4080
03:01:05,960 --> 03:01:03,601
Barrett's UFO knowledge okay didn't know

4081
03:01:10,460 --> 03:01:05,970
and I've been looking at his life for

4082
03:01:12,910 --> 03:01:10,470
for for a long time and been a big fan

4083
03:01:17,530 --> 03:01:12,920
of not only his work but his fight for

4084
03:01:21,980 --> 03:01:17,540
for journalism and freedom of speech but

4085
03:01:23,960 --> 03:01:21,990
very refreshing to hear his take when he

4086
03:01:27,230 --> 03:01:23,970
is talking about he didn't mention

4087
03:01:29,420 --> 03:01:27,240
Project Mockingbird by name but that's

4088
03:01:32,180 --> 03:01:29,430
what you know he was today so he is

4089
03:01:34,430 --> 03:01:32,190
quite familiar with all of these

4090
03:01:36,801 --> 03:01:34,440
subjects and he was very comfortable and

4091
03:01:37,540 --> 03:01:36,811
going there I was very impressed with

4092
03:01:40,820 --> 03:01:37,550
that

4093
03:01:42,320 --> 03:01:40,830
mm-hm yeah the mini study picked up

4094
03:01:46,220 --> 03:01:42,330
Jacques believes look I get here to

4095
03:01:48,620 --> 03:01:46,230
surprise again so oh really yeah that

4096
03:01:54,470 --> 03:01:48,630
was cool I did I was like he didn't just

4097
03:01:57,051 --> 03:01:54,480
say Jacques Vallee did he he said Brook

4098
03:01:59,301 --> 03:01:57,061
dude you know and you've got to uh

4099
03:02:01,190 --> 03:01:59,311
you've got to have a basic little

4100
03:02:05,060 --> 03:02:01,200
foundation to be able to go into those

4101
03:02:07,670 --> 03:02:05,070
zones and and talk about it very very

4102
03:02:10,610 --> 03:02:07,680
bright guy with his feet on the ground

4103
03:02:13,250 --> 03:02:10,620
and what what a great show tonight not

4104
03:02:14,780 --> 03:02:13,260
only for the fader nots but for myself

4105
03:02:17,750 --> 03:02:14,790
too as well that was just an amazing

4106
03:02:20,780 --> 03:02:17,760
conversation I'm glad he's on our side

4107
03:02:23,190 --> 03:02:20,790
Oh 100% account and then he said cueing

4108
03:02:26,219 --> 03:02:23,200
on I was like oh here we go

4109
03:02:28,469 --> 03:02:26,229
you know and I did I I just thought

4110
03:02:31,860 --> 03:02:28,479
we're gonna I wanted to talk to him

4111
03:02:35,160 --> 03:02:31,870
about queueing on but he he is somebody

4112
03:02:37,350 --> 03:02:35,170
that as busy as he is with the pursuance

4113
03:02:40,710 --> 03:02:37,360
project in his new book you know my

4114
03:02:44,130 --> 03:02:40,720
glorious defeats and and everything that

4115
03:02:47,400 --> 03:02:44,140
he's got going on in his life to say

4116
03:02:50,310 --> 03:02:47,410
these things right in a row he he is

4117
03:02:53,400 --> 03:02:50,320
well-read and he is on top of the on top

4118
03:02:55,230 --> 03:02:53,410
of the world as far as research up on

4119
03:02:56,880 --> 03:02:55,240
top of some of the rhetoric - and let me

4120
03:02:59,750 --> 03:02:56,890
just say in closing cuz I'm let's go Jim

4121
03:03:01,890 --> 03:02:59,760
I'm a big Trump supporter but I

4122
03:03:03,390 --> 03:03:01,900
completely discredit the whole queue and

4123
03:03:05,310 --> 03:03:03,400
on Tom and I think it's a PSYOP

4124
03:03:08,130 --> 03:03:05,320
distraction take people off what's

4125
03:03:10,170 --> 03:03:08,140
really important well so I probably just

4126
03:03:13,560 --> 03:03:10,180
made a lot of enemies unless all right

4127
03:03:15,179 --> 03:03:13,570
you know every time a speech action dead

4128
03:03:17,270 --> 03:03:15,189
that's what this show is all about have

4129
03:03:19,380 --> 03:03:17,280
a great night and enjoy your weekend

4130
03:03:23,210 --> 03:03:19,390
thanks Jim you too take care

4131
03:03:26,730 --> 03:03:23,220
McCall and with that that will wrap this

4132
03:03:29,610 --> 03:03:26,740
special edition of fate or night I do

4133
03:03:33,870 --> 03:03:29,620
want to thank Barrett Brown for not only

4134
03:03:36,929 --> 03:03:33,880
coming in and engaging in a very amazing

4135
03:03:39,300 --> 03:03:36,939
conversation but Manning the phones here

4136
03:03:42,390 --> 03:03:39,310
that was just incredible what a great

4137
03:03:45,510 --> 03:03:42,400
conversation again pursuance project.org

4138
03:03:47,580 --> 03:03:45,520
and the Kickstarter links are over at

4139
03:03:50,040 --> 03:03:47,590
Jimmy Church radio.com

4140
03:03:53,040 --> 03:03:50,050
and we do have them up right there in

4141
03:03:55,710 --> 03:03:53,050
Twitter man I want to thank everybody

4142
03:03:57,390 --> 03:03:55,720
that not only tweeted tonight but all of

4143
03:04:00,390 --> 03:03:57,400
the phone calls what a great

4144
03:04:02,880 --> 03:04:00,400
conversation paid to Black's executive

4145
03:04:05,370 --> 03:04:02,890
producer is ritika Murray on show is

4146
03:04:07,980 --> 03:04:05,380
produced by Hilton tape home Rene Dennis

4147
03:04:11,310 --> 03:04:07,990
and Bob announcers are Steve Carter Jean

4148
03:04:15,090 --> 03:04:11,320
Vito mrdiko bar what master is drew the

4149
03:04:18,630 --> 03:04:15,100
geek music doug aldrich intro space boys

4150
03:04:21,330 --> 03:04:18,640
space boy music.com fade to black is

4151
03:04:25,890 --> 03:04:21,340
produced by kjsurya

4152
03:04:28,080 --> 03:04:25,900
syndication is kgr a the planet spark a

4153
03:04:30,060 --> 03:04:28,090
stone a copyright of 2018 by fade to

4154
03:04:31,639 --> 03:04:30,070
black in the game changer network it

4155
03:04:33,469 --> 03:04:31,649
cannot be rebroadcast

4156
03:04:35,330 --> 03:04:33,479
loaded copied or used anywhere in the

4157
03:04:36,920 --> 03:04:35,340
known universe without written

4158
03:04:39,050 --> 03:04:36,930
permission from fade to black of the

4159
03:04:41,330 --> 03:04:39,060
GameChanger network on those chilly

4160
03:04:44,620 --> 03:04:41,340
church follow me on twitter @ JT radio

4161
03:04:49,670 --> 03:04:44,630
you can follow Barrett at Barrett Brown

4162
03:04:52,480 --> 03:04:49,680
underscore until Monday everybody be

4163
03:05:00,350 --> 03:04:52,490
safe go back Lee taboo